Question:

Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until now, I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis when I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections of 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that I could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that would allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up the handwiring a bit. I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a product called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking for! They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, but it rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. They also have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and PCB. I ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I received an email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board cradles have been shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them in the next day or so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be able to give them a good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. Anyone else using these?  Here’s their URL: www.chassi-swing.com Mikey

Response:

Whoa, pretty friggin’ cool!  Nice find.  I think I’ll order one, after I hear back from the dudes who build ‘em. LV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until now, > I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis when > I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections of > 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in > indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that I > could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check > voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of > being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side > quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my > boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that would > allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up the > handwiring a bit. > I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a product > called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking for! > They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, but it > rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. They also > have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and PCB. I > ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I received an > email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board cradles have been > shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them in the next day or > so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be able to give them a > good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. Anyone else > using these?  Here’s their URL: www.chassi-swing.com > Mikey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until now, > I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis when > I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections of > 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in > indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that I > could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check > voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of > being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side > quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my > boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that would > allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up the > handwiring a bit. > I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a product > called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking for! > They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, but it > rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. They also > have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and PCB. I > ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I received an > email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board cradles have been > shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them in the next day or > so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be able to give them a > good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. Anyone else > using these?  Here’s their URL: www.chassi-swing.com > Mikey

Cool. Mine cost about $35 to build 17 years ago. Nice find. John

Response:

Cradles and Bassinets These mini cribs are made to keep newborns close to the parents’ bed or to simply offer parents an additional place to safely put a baby down to sleep. Cradles rock back and forth and either sit on the floor or hang from hooks on a stand; bassinets don’t rock but are often on wheels, so you can move your baby from room to room. Cradles and bassinets can provide a small, secure-feeling space for babies fresh from their small, secure-feeling wombs. And most look incredibly charming. But you certainly can put a newborn baby in a full-size crib and save yourself the $100 to $400 a cradle costs (bassinets run about $50 to $150)–as well as $50 or so in miniature sheets. In addition, because cradles have the ability to rock, you need to be aware that they can tip to one side when the baby moves around, potentially leaving the baby pressed against a blanket or bumper and thereby at risk for suffocation. If you do opt to buy a cradle or bassinet, there are a number of things to look for:      * If the bassinet is made of wicker, be sure it doesn’t have any sharp edges or points on the inside.      * Cradle bars (or slats) should not be more than 2 3/8 inches apart.      * Never use a thin, soft mattress that is too small for the cradle, as it can cause suffocation if the baby’s face gets wedged in the gap between the side of the cradle and the edge of the mattress.      * Cradles should have rocking pins, which help to prevent them from tipping to one side. If your cradle doesn’t have a pin to stop the rocking motion, you can jerry-rig one. If the cradle sits on the floor, just put two small pieces of wood under the rocker after your baby has fallen asleep. If the cradle hangs from a stand, you can tie the cradle to its base to prevent it from rocking while your infant’s sleeping–making sure, of course, that no strings are left within her reach. The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) recommends that you follow manufacturer’s guidelines on the weight and size of babies who can safely use these products and offers the following safety considerations: Bassinets and Cradles     1. Bassinet/Cradle has a sturdy bottom and a wide base for stability.     2. Bassinet/Cradle has smooth surfaces–no protruding staples or other hardware that injure the baby.     3. Legs have strong, effective locks to prevent folding while in use.     4. Mattress is firm and fits snugly. http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,6137,00.html http://www.adirondackfurniture.com/cradle.html http://www.dreamtimebaby.com/cradbas.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Whoa, pretty friggin’ cool!  Nice find.  I think I’ll order one, after > I hear back from the dudes who build ‘em. > LV > Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until now, > I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis when > I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections of > 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in > indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that I > could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check > voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of > being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side > quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my > boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that would > allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up the > handwiring a bit. > I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a product > called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking for! > They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, but it > rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. They also > have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and PCB. I > ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I received an > email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board cradles have been > shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them in the next day or > so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be able to give them a > good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. Anyone else > using these?  Here’s their URL: www.chassi-swing.com > Mikey

Response:

> I’ll be able to give them a > good workout this week and will post my findings to the group.

PLEASE DO!!!!   Specifically, I’d like to know how long it takes to set up for each amp (like going from a Twin to a JCM 800 and back to a Princeton, e.g.)   When in the "board-up" position, how much room is there underneath for tubes?  How ’bout tubes with in-line bias probes? (mine add about 2") This could be really cool!!!! –Mike  Mike Schway           |   [Picture your favorite quote here]  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until now, > I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis when > I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections > of 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in > indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that I > could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check > voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of > being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side > quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my > boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that would > allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up the > handwiring a bit. > I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a product > called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking > for! They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, > but it rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. > They also have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and > PCB. I ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I > received an email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board > cradles have been shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them > in the next day or so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be > able to give them a good workout this week and will post my findings to > the group. Anyone else using these?  Here’s their URL: > www.chassi-swing.com > Mikey

Correction to the above. The board cradles will flip 360 degree’s, but the chassis cradles don’t. They’ll allow for a nice working angle, but aren’t able to rotate an entire 360. No problem there for me but I needed to make the correction after Jeff at chassi-swing emailed me. Mikey

Response:

> Whoa, pretty friggin’ cool!  Nice find.  I think I’ll order one, after > I hear back from the dudes who build ‘em. > LV

Yeah Baby! I’m thinking that these may be able to save me some time when handwiring. Should also be a big help when it comes to inspecting solder joints and such. Maybe they’ll also help my lower back as well!  LOL Jeff’s been very responsive, I don’t think you’ll have to wait too long to get a reply. Mikey

Response:

These cradles…..will ROCK!  LOL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cradles and Bassinets > These mini cribs are made to keep newborns close to the parents’ bed or to > simply offer parents an additional place to safely put a baby down to > sleep. Cradles rock back and forth and either sit on the floor or hang > from hooks on a stand; bassinets don’t rock but are often on wheels, so > you can move your baby from room to room. > Cradles and bassinets can provide a small, secure-feeling space for babies > fresh from their small, secure-feeling wombs. And most look incredibly > charming. But you certainly can put a newborn baby in a full-size crib and > save yourself the $100 to $400 a cradle costs (bassinets run about $50 to > $150)–as well as $50 or so in miniature sheets. In addition, because > cradles have the ability to rock, you need to be aware that they can tip > to one side when the baby moves around, potentially leaving the baby > pressed against a blanket or bumper and thereby at risk for suffocation. > If you do opt to buy a cradle or bassinet, there are a number of things to > look for: >     * If the bassinet is made of wicker, be sure it doesn’t have any sharp > edges or points on the inside. >     * Cradle bars (or slats) should not be more than 2 3/8 inches apart. >     * Never use a thin, soft mattress that is too small for the cradle, as > it can cause suffocation if the baby’s face gets wedged in the gap between > the side of the cradle and the edge of the mattress. >     * Cradles should have rocking pins, which help to prevent them from > tipping to one side. If your cradle doesn’t have a pin to stop the rocking > motion, you can jerry-rig one. If the cradle sits on the floor, just put > two small pieces of wood under the rocker after your baby has fallen > asleep. If the cradle hangs from a stand, you can tie the cradle to its > base to prevent it from rocking while your infant’s sleeping–making sure, > of course, that no strings are left within her reach. > The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) recommends that you follow > manufacturer’s guidelines on the weight and size of babies who can safely > use these products and offers the following safety considerations: > Bassinets and Cradles >    1. Bassinet/Cradle has a sturdy bottom and a wide base for stability. >    2. Bassinet/Cradle has smooth surfaces–no protruding staples or other > hardware that injure the baby. >    3. Legs have strong, effective locks to prevent folding while in use. >    4. Mattress is firm and fits snugly. > http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,6137,00.html > http://www.adirondackfurniture.com/cradle.html > http://www.dreamtimebaby.com/cradbas.html > Whoa, pretty friggin’ cool!  Nice find.  I think I’ll order one, after > I hear back from the dudes who build ‘em. > LV >> Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until >> now, >> I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis >> when >> I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections >> of >> 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in >> indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that >> I >> could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check >> voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of >> being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side >> quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my >> boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that >> would >> allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up >> the >> handwiring a bit. >> I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a >> product >> called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking >> for! >> They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, but >> it >> rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. They >> also >> have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and PCB. I >> ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I >> received an >> email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board cradles have >> been >> shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them in the next day >> or >> so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be able to give them >> a >> good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. Anyone >> else >> using these?  Here’s their URL: www.chassi-swing.com >> Mikey

Response:

> Cool. > Mine cost about $35 to build 17 years ago. > Nice find. > John

They look really good, solid hardwood, should take a beating. I should get them in the next day or so, and I already have a chassis and a couple of boards waiting, so we’ll see how they do. If they can save me some time then they’ll definitely be worth it to me. And if I don’t have to constantly lean as far over my work bench, I’m sure my back will be thanking them as well. Mikey

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll be able to give them a > good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. > PLEASE DO!!!! > Specifically, I’d like to know how long it takes to set up for each amp > (like going from a Twin to a JCM 800 and back to a Princeton, e.g.) > When in the "board-up" position, how much room is there underneath for > tubes?  How ’bout tubes with in-line bias probes? (mine add about 2") > This could be really cool!!!! > –Mike

I’ll definitely let you know how they do. As soon as I saw them, I kinda knew that they were what I’d been looking for. You shouldn’t have any tube clearance issues, based on this pic: http://www.chassi-swing.com/main/products.asp?i=cc2b Jeff’s site mentions a 4-1/4" tube clearance, but since you can set the cradle on an angle like in the pic, you can have the tubes angled away from your bench. Or, I guess you could put a block or two underneath, to raise the entire cradle assembly up as much as you need. Mikey

Response:

> Correction to the above. The board cradles will flip 360 degree’s, but the > chassis cradles don’t. They’ll allow for a nice working angle, but aren’t > able to rotate an entire 360. No problem there for me but I needed to make > the correction after Jeff at chassi-swing emailed me.

I’m a little confused about the chassis vs board swing.  From the pix, it looks like the PCB cradle has a different base as the chassis swing, yet the board holder is an option on the big unit.  Let us know. You’re mentioning saving your lower back.  I’m looking forward (no pun intended) to it helping my neck and shoulders! Dang, this is gonna be good! (I hope, I hope!) –Mike  Mike Schway           |   [Picture your favorite quote here]  

Response:

> I’m a little confused about the chassis vs board swing.  From the pix, > it looks like the PCB cradle has a different base as the chassis swing, > yet the board holder is an option on the big unit.  Let us know.

The cradle that holds the boards is an attachment. It uses the same base. You would just remove the chassis cradle from the base, and substitute the board cradle in its place. > You’re mentioning saving your lower back.  I’m looking forward (no pun > intended) to it helping my neck and shoulders! > Dang, this is gonna be good! (I hope, I hope!) > –Mike

I’m hoping as well!  LOL  Just being able to angle the chassis so that I can get to the board without having to bend all the way over my bench to get inside the chassis will be a big help. Plus, there’s some soldering that I want to do while the board is either angled or in a more vertical position. I’m thinking there may be several benefits to this setup. I’ll just have to try them to see how everything works. I’ll give em’ a good workout and will post my findings so other builders will know what’s up before deciding to order. Mikey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Cool. >Mine cost about $35 to build 17 years ago. >Nice find. >John > They look really good, solid hardwood, should take a beating. I should get > them in the next day or so, and I already have a chassis and a couple of > boards waiting, so we’ll see how they do. If they can save me some time then > they’ll definitely be worth it to me. And if I don’t have to constantly lean > as far over my work bench, I’m sure my back will be thanking them as well. > > Mikey

Indispensable for fast, efficient work on large projects. John

Response:

> They look really good, solid hardwood, should take a beating. I should > get them in the next day or so, and I already have a chassis and a couple > of boards waiting, so we’ll see how they do. If they can save me some > time then they’ll definitely be worth it to me. And if I don’t have to > constantly lean as far over my work bench, I’m sure my back will be > thanking them as well. > Mikey > Indispensable for fast, efficient work on large projects. > John

I remember when I got my digital soldering station. Man, what a timesaver that was! And soldering quality rose significantly. Hopefully, these cradles will give the same type of benefits. Mikey

Response:

There’s a pharmacists’ strike in Mulay’s town, obviously….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Cradles and Bassinets >These mini cribs are made to keep newborns close to the parents’ bed or to simply offer parents an additional place to safely >put a baby down to sleep. Cradles rock back and forth and either sit on the floor or hang from hooks on a stand; bassinets don’t >rock but are often on wheels, so you can move your baby from room to room. >Cradles and bassinets can provide a small, secure-feeling space for babies fresh from their small, secure-feeling wombs. And >most look incredibly charming. But you certainly can put a newborn baby in a full-size crib and save yourself the $100 to $400 a >cradle costs (bassinets run about $50 to $150)–as well as $50 or so in miniature sheets. In addition, because cradles have the >ability to rock, you need to be aware that they can tip to one side when the baby moves around, potentially leaving the baby >pressed against a blanket or bumper and thereby at risk for suffocation. >If you do opt to buy a cradle or bassinet, there are a number of things to look for: >     * If the bassinet is made of wicker, be sure it doesn’t have any sharp edges or points on the inside. >     * Cradle bars (or slats) should not be more than 2 3/8 inches apart. >     * Never use a thin, soft mattress that is too small for the cradle, as it can cause suffocation if the baby’s face gets >wedged in the gap between the side of the cradle and the edge of the mattress. >     * Cradles should have rocking pins, which help to prevent them from tipping to one side. If your cradle doesn’t have a pin >to stop the rocking motion, you can jerry-rig one. If the cradle sits on the floor, just put two small pieces of wood under the >rocker after your baby has fallen asleep. If the cradle hangs from a stand, you can tie the cradle to its base to prevent it >from rocking while your infant’s sleeping–making sure, of course, that no strings are left within her reach. >The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) recommends that you follow manufacturer’s guidelines on the weight and size of >babies who can safely use these products and offers the following safety considerations: >Bassinets and Cradles >    1. Bassinet/Cradle has a sturdy bottom and a wide base for stability. >    2. Bassinet/Cradle has smooth surfaces–no protruding staples or other hardware that injure the baby. >    3. Legs have strong, effective locks to prevent folding while in use. >    4. Mattress is firm and fits snugly. >http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,6137,00.html >http://www.adirondackfurniture.com/cradle.html >http://www.dreamtimebaby.com/cradbas.html > Whoa, pretty friggin’ cool!  Nice find.  I think I’ll order one, after > I hear back from the dudes who build ‘em. > LV >> Just thought I’d share a cool product that I stumbled upon. Up until now, >> I’ve been using a pair of homemade chassis blocks to hold the chassis when >> I’m wiring up the circuit, switches, etc. These were just short sections of >> 2×4’s, screwed to the same lengths of 4×4’s, and then covered in >> indoor/outdoor carpet. These would hold the chassis high enough so that I >> could install the power and preamp tubes, which would allow me to check >> voltages, bias and so on. But, I’ve always wanted to have some method of >> being able to move the chassis around or flip it over to the other side >> quickly. I can do it manually, but it’s just a pain. Same thing with my >> boards. I just wanted something that would hold the board, but that would >> allow me to move the board around to get to the other side to speed up the >> handwiring a bit. >> I was surfing the net one evening and came across this link for a product >> called chassi-swing. This is one of those things that I’ve been looking for! >> They make a hardwood chassis cradle that not only holds the chassis, but it >> rotates so you can get to the other side of the chassis quickly. They also >> have an attachment that will hold circuit boards, both PTP and PCB. I >> ordered a full set of cradles for both the chassis and boards. I received an >> email from Jeff at chassi-swing that my chassis and board cradles have been >> shipped and are on their way. I should be getting them in the next day or >> so. Since I just started another DRRI rebuild, I’ll be able to give them a >> good workout this week and will post my findings to the group. Anyone else >> using these?  Here’s their URL: www.chassi-swing.com >> Mikey

Response:

Chicago pharmacists strike Walgreens drugstores Some 1,200 pharmacists at 400 Chicago-area Walgreen Co. stores walked off the job July 7 to protest low staffing levels and increased workloads that they believe could endanger the safety of customer-patients. According to the National Pharmacists Association

Question:

> I’ve seen data suggesting that you should be able to get 2.2 kWh / Liters > running on vegetable oil, Bio-Diesel is a little lower but Dino-Diesel would > be about the same. This was for a slow running Lister 6Hp 1 cyl. with a 3kW > ST alternator attached.

I get about half of this right now (~1 kWh on a quart) running an induction generator on WVO.  I know my system is very inefficient, so I can believe the 2.2 kWh / liter numbers. Rory

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It is time for me to think about a proper and practicable fuel system > for my diesel genset. > Option 1: use a 25 gallon, 6" by 13" by 60" polyethylene fuel > tank. That would hopefully last about 2 days of 24 hour operation. > It would sit in the neighboring shed, far from sight. > Pros: one tank to take care of, cool, large capacity in a compact > format. > Cons: illegal in my area, hard to move about due to weight, too much > fuel really. > Option 2: use 5 gallon fuel containers. > Pros: legal, easy to move about. > Cons: not as much storing capacity, would need to stop genset to > switch fuel sources > I am leaning towards using option 2. My question is, is there any > ready made fuel line/return line adaptors for regular gas containers? > Such that if the container falls accidentally, diesel fuel would not > spill. > i

Your real problem with Plastic tanks, and the Fire Marshal, is that plastic tanks will MELT in a fire and then add the contents to the fire, which the Fire Marshal, REALLY will frown on.  A metal tank will just boil off the contents slowly and not add to the majority of a fire. Also I thk you are way UNDER estimating how long your run will be with 5 gallons of fuel on your DJE, at load.  I suspect that your 25 gallons will last at least quadruple what you thinking. I get 10 Gal/day on my 20Kw Northern Lights with runs of 18 hours. This is twice the engine that your running.  My DJA took 50 hours of operation to burn 3 gal at 3Kw load. Bruce in alaska —

Response:

> Also I thk you are way UNDER estimating how long your run will be > with 5 gallons of fuel on your DJE, at load.  I suspect that your 25 > gallons will last at least quadruple what you thinking. > I get 10 Gal/day on my 20Kw Northern Lights with runs of 18 hours. > This is twice the engine that your running.  My DJA took 50 hours > of operation to burn 3 gal at 3Kw load. > Wow, that is impressive. Based on the information you provided — 50 > hours on the twice smaller DJA — it would logically take the DJE 25 > hours to burn one 5 gallon container’s worth of fuel. Very nice. One 5 > gal container per day, roughly, at half load. Is my calculation > sensible? If so, I am even happier than I was before.

I’ve seen data suggesting that you should be able to get 2.2 kWh / Liters running on vegetable oil, Bio-Diesel is a little lower but Dino-Diesel would be about the same. This was for a slow running Lister 6Hp 1 cyl. with a 3kW ST alternator attached. How much electricity do you use a day, have you logged your consumption over time, that will give you a good idea of how much you would use… /Morten — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

   >Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower    >Whatever you decide, there is one item to remember. You’ll need fuel    >stabilizer in the diesel. I’ve heard some fungus and algae love the    >stuff. If left for some time, the fuel turns nasty.    >You’ll have to do a search for the particulars..    >mike Try the archives.  This topic got a heavy workout about 6 months ago. Tom Willmon near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 – Registered

Response:

> “B) Prohibited Storage Of Flammable Liquids: The storage of flammable > liquids in outside aboveground tanks is prohibited within the > corporate limits of the Village except by special permit issued by the

Diesel may not qualify as "flammable", per that type of language. If you can find a diesel-fuel rated, labeled container (like a gasoline container, but yellow and marked for diesel) you will note that the language on there describes the contents as combustible. This means that the flash point is above 100F (flammable, such as gasoline, is below 100F) Obviously a good idea to double check that interpretation with your local fire officials – they can be quite helpful if you ask them. > Based on common sense, I want to go for simplicity, that is, simply > using 5 gallon fuel containers. > What I now need to know is how to make a good fuel adaptor for a fuel > container, so that I can draw fuel and return it, but bugs and dirt > would not get in and it would not spill too much if I knock it over > (as happened yesterday).

You’re evidently into "military surplus", so a fitment based on a standard jerry can spout connector would seem to make sense, along with jerry cans as your 5 gallon containers. If these are still fairly similar to the old jerry cans, they have a large flat surface with a pretty small spout/hose coming out; there might also be spoutless "blank" covers, it’s been 20 years or so since I used one. You want a cover with 3 holes in it – one hose to pick up fuel from the bottom of the can, one hose for fuel return from the pump, and one hose to a vent (filtered/screened in some way, and mounted well above the tank). I forget if the cans have a separate vent hole, if so, your vent hose/filter  can connect to that. If this is correctly made, there should be no leakage at all if it’s knocked over (but you should also make a holder to keep the can from being knocked over). — Cats, Coffee, Chocolate…vices to live by

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> It is time for me to think about a proper and practicable fuel system > for my diesel genset.

Whatever you decide, there is one item to remember. You’ll need fuel stabilizer in the diesel. I’ve heard some fungus and algae love the stuff. If left for some time, the fuel turns nasty. You’ll have to do a search for the particulars.. mike

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   >Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower [snip]    >I just called our fire department.    >The fire official said no way I could store diesel in a polyethylene    >tank.    >He said to use approved metal fuel containers that have "spring    >loaded lids". I never heard of those but he sounded like they are    >available. I know these as "safety cans".  Cylindrical, pivoted handle on top, spout at shoulder with a flap-like cover spring-loaded against it.  A good one will have a screen flame arrester inside the spout.  One of mine came from NAPA auto parts.  Suckers cost, used to be about $25. They’re a real pain to pour from, requiring pressure on the handle to lift the flap off the spout.  Like many safety devices, their use adds unnecessary hazard to the operation.  They’re a good idea for storing gasoline and other highly volatiles, but I don’t see the sense for diesel. And polyethylene is a poor choice for a fuel tank, melt and release its contents into a fire. Tom Willmon near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 – Registered

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I’ll get a pic this weekend. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would suggest the white plastic 15 gallon containers. 15 gallons is >movable by one person, full, with some effort. It has 2 bungs on top, >and can have fuel line connectors installed into the sides with a bit of >finagling. > Do you have a picture of one somewhere?I have never seen such > containers. > i >Steve Spence >Dir., Green Trust >http://www.green-trust.org >>It is time for me to think about a proper and practicable fuel system >>for my diesel genset. >>Option 1: use a 25 gallon, 6" by 13" by 60" polyethylene fuel >>tank. That would hopefully last about 2 days of 24 hour operation. >>It would sit in the neighboring shed, far from sight. >>Pros: one tank to take care of, cool, large capacity in a compact >>format. >>Cons: illegal in my area, hard to move about due to weight, too much >>fuel really. >>Option 2: use 5 gallon fuel containers. >>Pros: legal, easy to move about. >>Cons: not as much storing capacity, would need to stop genset to >>switch fuel sources >>I am leaning towards using option 2. My question is, is there any >>ready made fuel line/return line adaptors for regular gas containers? >>Such that if the container falls accidentally, diesel fuel would not >>spill. >>i

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>     What some setups use is a multiple fuel tank system. > There is the primary ( Don’t know the proper term for it. ) tank > which is where the engine takes suction and where the fuel return > lines spew back into.  This is usually quite small, only a few gallons, > and is permanently attached.

The "day tank". I gather that the term arises from shipboard systems where it is or was common for it to be of a size to run the generator for 24 hours. >     The next tank or tanks, have a fuel pump that pumps into the > primary tank, with a float switch to keep the primary tank at a given > level.  This way one can swap tanks easily, without having to shut > down.  It does introduce an additional point of failure.

An important additional aspect of this type of system is additional filtering between the bulk storage and the day tank. If the system is being run by an operator and the day tank is really good for a day, then float switches, etc are not really needed, and may not be wanted, if there is an opportunity for the operator to inspect the incoming fuel as it is transferred in, and stop to change filters or draw from a different tank if a particular batch of fuel appears problematic, without getting problematic fuel into the day tank (and thus the generator itself). How this sort of thing scales down to a home system is up to the operator of the home system. If Ignoramus’s assement of his local laws is that he can not have a generator fuel tank larger than 5 gallons, then one option is a 5 gallon "day tank" connected to the generator, with provison to transfer fuel into it from other 5 gallon tanks (using a transfer pump, with or without additional fuel filtering). Correctly set up, this would permit continous operation with safety. I suspect that the local laws might actually allow a larger tank, if it is viewed as non-portable (and is diesel, not gasoline). Certainly anywhere that oil heat is common (such as NE USA) 275 gallon oil tanks are a common, accepted, legal means of storing fuel oil either inside of or next to dwellings; and many pre-packaged portable generators have fuel tanks of 6-12 gallons or even larger. — Cats, Coffee, Chocolate…vices to live by

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We have two 15 gallon fuel tanks, one for diesel, one for veggie oil. a coolant heat exchanger keeps the veggie oil tank warm. we have a electric fuel selector valve to select tanks. Currently we just drop the fuel lines into the open bungs, and it’s still easy to refill from 5 gallon containers. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It is time for me to think about a proper and practicable fuel system >for my diesel genset. >Option 1: use a 25 gallon, 6" by 13" by 60" polyethylene fuel >tank. That would hopefully last about 2 days of 24 hour operation. >It would sit in the neighboring shed, far from sight. >Pros: one tank to take care of, cool, large capacity in a compact >format. >Cons: illegal in my area, hard to move about due to weight, too much >fuel really. >Option 2: use 5 gallon fuel containers. >Pros: legal, easy to move about. >Cons: not as much storing capacity, would need to stop genset to >switch fuel sources >I am leaning towards using option 2. My question is, is there any >ready made fuel line/return line adaptors for regular gas containers? >Such that if the container falls accidentally, diesel fuel would not >spill. >i >– >223/172.2/180 >     What some setups use is a multiple fuel tank system. > There is the primary ( Don’t know the proper term for it. ) tank > which is where the engine takes suction and where the fuel return > lines spew back into.  This is usually quite small, only a few gallons, > and is permanently attached. >     The next tank or tanks, have a fuel pump that pumps into the > primary tank, with a float switch to keep the primary tank at a given > level.  This way one can swap tanks easily, without having to shut > down.  It does introduce an additional point of failure. >     –Dale

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I would suggest the white plastic 15 gallon containers. 15 gallons is movable by one person, full, with some effort. It has 2 bungs on top, and can have fuel line connectors installed into the sides with a bit of finagling. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It is time for me to think about a proper and practicable fuel system > for my diesel genset. > Option 1: use a 25 gallon, 6" by 13" by 60" polyethylene fuel > tank. That would hopefully last about 2 days of 24 hour operation. > It would sit in the neighboring shed, far from sight. > Pros: one tank to take care of, cool, large capacity in a compact > format. > Cons: illegal in my area, hard to move about due to weight, too much > fuel really. > Option 2: use 5 gallon fuel containers. > Pros: legal, easy to move about. > Cons: not as much storing capacity, would need to stop genset to > switch fuel sources > I am leaning towards using option 2. My question is, is there any > ready made fuel line/return line adaptors for regular gas containers? > Such that if the container falls accidentally, diesel fuel would not > spill. > i

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It is time for me to think about a proper and practicable fuel system > for my diesel genset. > Option 1: use a 25 gallon, 6" by 13" by 60" polyethylene fuel > tank. That would hopefully last about 2 days of 24 hour operation. > It would sit in the neighboring shed, far from sight. > Pros: one tank to take care of, cool, large capacity in a compact > format. > Cons: illegal in my area, hard to move about due to weight, too much > fuel really. > Option 2: use 5 gallon fuel containers. > Pros: legal, easy to move about. > Cons: not as much storing capacity, would need to stop genset to > switch fuel sources > I am leaning towards using option 2. My question is, is there any > ready made fuel line/return line adaptors for regular gas containers? > Such that if the container falls accidentally, diesel fuel would not > spill. > i > — > 223/172.2/180

    What some setups use is a multiple fuel tank system. There is the primary ( Don’t know the proper term for it. ) tank which is where the engine takes suction and where the fuel return lines spew back into.  This is usually quite small, only a few gallons, and is permanently attached.     The next tank or tanks, have a fuel pump that pumps into the primary tank, with a float switch to keep the primary tank at a given level.  This way one can swap tanks easily, without having to shut down.  It does introduce an additional point of failure.     –Dale

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Question:

[snip] > The going rate seems to > be about $300-500 for a ticket.  I’d bet that is a good basic model > for a ticket price.  Once enough airlines fail, I think you’ll see > alot of tickets going for that price. > Since the going rate for a rewards voucher is in the low 300’s that > would appear to be about the point where tickets would top out.  I doubt > that WN books many round trips anywhere near $500.  If they did the > stock would be doing better.  Even when they make money the stock drops.

   Took me 1 try to come up with a $556 itinerary.  You’re right, they probably sell a limited number of them.  But in essence, I would suspect that the rest of them are "loss leaders".  Once you put enough $500 seats on a plane, you can sell the rest of them at a lower price. WN is doing "yield management" just like everyone else.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [snip] >The answer is much more simple. >Memo: >To all airline employees.  It has been determined that your pay will >be reduced by 30% effective tommorrow.  You will, except for pilots, >likewise be subject to normal work rules (40 hours week, have a slip >from a doc if sick, etc) as other blue collar/pink collar workers. If >you can take you NON-TRANSFERABLE job skills elsewhere and make more, >don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. >Problem solved. >   I’m suspicious that the problem isn’t as simple as that.  It’s not > that lowering salaries wouldn’t help the airlines, but fuel costs > and the debt burden many of them carry may sink them regardless of > the cost of labor.  Planes are expensive and take a long time > to recoup the cost.  My personal prediction is that airlines will > continue to fail until there are few enough of them to allow them > to jack up prices.  If you sniff around WN you’ll note that they don’t > sell an awful lot of those $99 tickets.  The going rate seems to > be about $300-500 for a ticket.  I’d bet that is a good basic model > for a ticket price.  Once enough airlines fail, I think you’ll see > alot of tickets going for that price.

Since the going rate for a rewards voucher is in the low 300’s that would appear to be about the point where tickets would top out.  I doubt that WN books many round trips anywhere near $500.  If they did the stock would be doing better.  Even when they make money the stock drops.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [snip] >>The going rate seems to >>be about $300-500 for a ticket.  I’d bet that is a good basic model >>for a ticket price.  Once enough airlines fail, I think you’ll see >>alot of tickets going for that price. >Since the going rate for a rewards voucher is in the low 300’s that >would appear to be about the point where tickets would top out.  I doubt >that WN books many round trips anywhere near $500.  If they did the >stock would be doing better.  Even when they make money the stock drops. >    Took me 1 try to come up with a $556 itinerary.  You’re right, they > probably sell a limited number of them.  But in essence, I would > suspect that the rest of them are "loss leaders".  Once you put enough > $500 seats on a plane, you can sell the rest of them at a lower price. > WN is doing "yield management" just like everyone else.

I suppose they sell some.  I wonder why those folks don’t simply buy a reward coupon for 2/3 the price?  I suppose that it’s not completely refundable but certainly someone is going to fly somewhere they fly.

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[snip] > The answer is much more simple. > Memo: > To all airline employees.  It has been determined that your pay will > be reduced by 30% effective tommorrow.  You will, except for pilots, > likewise be subject to normal work rules (40 hours week, have a slip > from a doc if sick, etc) as other blue collar/pink collar workers. If > you can take you NON-TRANSFERABLE job skills elsewhere and make more, > don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. > Problem solved.

  I’m suspicious that the problem isn’t as simple as that.  It’s not that lowering salaries wouldn’t help the airlines, but fuel costs and the debt burden many of them carry may sink them regardless of the cost of labor.  Planes are expensive and take a long time to recoup the cost.  My personal prediction is that airlines will continue to fail until there are few enough of them to allow them to jack up prices.  If you sniff around WN you’ll note that they don’t sell an awful lot of those $99 tickets.  The going rate seems to be about $300-500 for a ticket.  I’d bet that is a good basic model for a ticket price.  Once enough airlines fail, I think you’ll see alot of tickets going for that price.

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> They have recently (since 9/11) gotten some subsidies from Congress, while some > of the largest companies are bankrupt or on the verge of it > Therefore, as King of the USA: > I would "virtually consolidate" United, Delta, U.S. Air and any other which is > collapsing financially > No airplane would be leaving a gate which is not (arbitrary percentage, subject > to revision) at least eighty-percent filled > Next problem?

How about " I would continue the ban on Cabotage, overseas majority ownership and operation of airlines in US." That should pretty much seal their fate… Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If I were king/ruler/dictator of the U.S. > The ailing segment of the airline industry would now be encouraged to > "collude." > By this I mean they must undertake certain mutually beneficial > "anti-competitive" cooperative measures. > They are manifestly not currently self-sustaining. > They have recently (since 9/11) gotten some subsidies from Congress, while some > of the largest companies are bankrupt or on the verge of it > Therefore, as King of the USA: > I would "virtually consolidate" United, Delta, U.S. Air and any other which is > collapsing financially > No airplane would be leaving a gate which is not (arbitrary percentage, subject > to revision) at least eighty-percent filled

The answer is much more simple. Memo: To all airline employees.  It has been determined that your pay will be reduced by 30% effective tommorrow.  You will, except for pilots, likewise be subject to normal work rules (40 hours week, have a slip from a doc if sick, etc) as other blue collar/pink collar workers. If you can take you NON-TRANSFERABLE job skills elsewhere and make more, don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Problem solved.

Response:

> > > The next problem is that your solution wouldn’t work since it is > > LOW FARES not empty seats that is the problem.  CO recently posted > > an example of a completely full flight losing money as a result. >  Do you have an URL for this?  is it on their website? > He is exaggerating when he says "completely full", but his point is > accurate. Continental’s July 2004 load factor was 86.1%. That’s > significantly better than what it was in the "boom times".

Bob, you seem to be confusing two very different things. JBK’s claim refers to "an example of a completely full flight"; your 86.1% refers to July’s "systemwide mainline load factor" and tells us nothing whatsoever about any individual flight. I can quite believe that sufficiently close examination of CO’s data shows the existence of a specific flight which was completely full but the revenue for which did not cover the cost of the flight. When BA introduced their UK domestic "Shuttle" service their adverts asserted that they would put on a second aeroplane for a *single* customer who turned up on time.  Laying on a whole Trident for the revenue from a single standard fare is something of a loss-making operation, and I suspect that they occasionally made some rather generous offers to passengers who could afford to wait for the next scheduled aircraft.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > The lack of a competition watchdog allowed the big carriers to kill all > > but a > > few upstarts > You seem to be saying that deregulation was a bad thing because it was > anti-competitive, JF. It unfairly allowed the dinosaurs to ruin upstart > airlines. > No. Deregulation was meant to spur competition. But the legacy airlines > worked > together to prevent competition. It is the lack of action by the > government to > ensure that the legacy airlines didn’t use predatory/anti-competitive > tactics > that I mentioned. Not the lack of airline regulation.

Should national governments step in to save stores that can’t compete? What about Company X that makes one widget that can’t compete with Company Y that offers the same widget at a lower cost? Should the government regulate the widget industry so they both make money? I’m not sure what your problem is with deregulation, JF. Lots of airlines formed, most went by the wayside. Such is the way of life in the business world. > Now you seem to be saying that deregulation has allowed the smart, > upstart > airlines to ruin the dinosaurs. At least that’s how I read it. Am I > missing > something here? > Only a couple of small upstarts survived, many more were killed by the > legacy > airline’s predatory practices.

If airlines are not allowed to change their pricing, they are no longer unregulated. Letting prices rise and fall based on actual demand is what deregulation is all about. If deregulation is such a bad thing, how do you explain this? "Airline deregulation, now twenty years old, has been a success. Average airfares, adjusted for inflation, have declined since 1978. Passenger traffic has more than doubled and competition has led to the innovation and efficiency that caused the continued decline in average real fares." http://www.tech.purdue.edu/at/courses/at300/Documents/competition%20U… Granted, this is for the US. But I do believe that other countries that have deregulated their airlines have seen similar effects.

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> > The lack of a competition watchdog allowed the big carriers to kill all > but a > few upstarts > You seem to be saying that deregulation was a bad thing because it was > anti-competitive, JF. It unfairly allowed the dinosaurs to ruin upstart > airlines.

No. Deregulation was meant to spur competition. But the legacy airlines worked together to prevent competition. It is the lack of action by the government to ensure that the legacy airlines didn’t use predatory/anti-competitive tactics that I mentioned. Not the lack of airline regulation. > Now you seem to be saying that deregulation has allowed the smart, upstart > airlines to ruin the dinosaurs. At least that’s how I read it. Am I missing > something here?

Only a couple of small upstarts survived, many more were killed by the legacy airline’s predatory practices.

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>I think, in retrospect, that after 26 years, deregulation was a disaster. > It reduced service levels, by forcing the legacies into hub-and-spoke > systems, opened the industry to the low-fares which offer great deals IF > YOU > HAPPENED TO FLY WHERE THEY DO, but not otherwise. It brought with it > bus-ride service, including the "non-refundable" ticket.

"Airline deregulation, now twenty years old, has been a success. Average airfares, adjusted for inflation, have declined since 1978. Passenger traffic has more than doubled and competition has led to the innovation and efficiency that caused the continued decline in average real fares." http://www.tech.purdue.edu/at/courses/at300/Documents/competition%20U… > If you think this is bad, what do you think AIRTRAK (a nationalized U.S. > airline) would be like?

Re-read what I wrote below and you’ll notice that I am firmly against nationalizing airlines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > i think that i am for nationalizing and consolidating the current > > ailing > > airline industry, but doing as little damage as necesssary to employees > > and to > > passengers;whilet simultaneously also protecting the taxpayers > I’m not. We nationalized passenger railroads, putting them under the > AMTRAK > umbrella. We did so because ALL the passenger rail lines were going > under. > It was impossible for them to make money as privately-run companies, no > matter how well run they were. (I think AMTRAK is an important service > that > deserves better, but that’s a separate discussion.) > Today, as others have pointed out, numerous airlines can and do make > money. > If we nationalize the turds, we are penalizing those airlines that know > how > to run their businesses, and we would be penalizing them with OUR money. > It’s no mystery why the dinosaurs are dying off worldwide. Why prop them > up > for a year or two when they will still fail?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And I disagree strongly.  Deregulation has opened up the industry, > brought about a range of services, reduces the forced cross subsidies to > uneconomic locations and services and generally made things more > available. > Collusion resulted in the legacy carriers all having the same published > prices, matching each other’s prices and competing solely on frequency and > number of destinations. This created artificial services and frequencies, > with > a structure that required the milking of business customers to survive. > The lack of a competition watchdog allowed the big carriers to kill all > but a > few upstarts with  unethical practices and get away with it. They knew > that if > an efficient airline were to take roots,  it would cause havok on their > strategies that had nothing to do with efficiency.

You seem to be saying that deregulation was a bad thing because it was anti-competitive, JF. It unfairly allowed the dinosaurs to ruin upstart airlines. > The minute someone came with serious price competition that started to > steal > business customers, the legacy airlines’ empire crumbled. And Southwest > grew > safely to a point where it can not only survive the legacy carriers’ > attacks, > but also become a predator against those very carriers.

Now you seem to be saying that deregulation has allowed the smart, upstart airlines to ruin the dinosaurs. At least that’s how I read it. Am I missing something here, JF?

Response:

> And I disagree strongly.  Deregulation has opened up the industry, > brought about a range of services, reduces the forced cross subsidies to > uneconomic locations and services and generally made things more > available.

Collusion resulted in the legacy carriers all having the same published prices, matching each other’s prices and competing solely on frequency and number of destinations. This created artificial services and frequencies, with a structure that required the milking of business customers to survive. The lack of a competition watchdog allowed the big carriers to kill all but a few upstarts with  unethical practices and get away with it. They knew that if an efficient airline were to take roots,  it would cause havok on their strategies that had nothing to do with efficiency. The minute someone came with serious price competition that started to steal business customers, the legacy airlines’ empire crumbled. And Southwest grew safely to a point where it can not only survive the legacy carriers’ attacks, but also become a predator against those very carriers.

Response:

And I disagree strongly.  Deregulation has opened up the industry, brought about a range of services, reduces the forced cross subsidies to uneconomic locations and services and generally made things more available.  If you want to spend big bucks you can still travel on refundable tickets and high service levels.  If you want to fly somewhere out of the way why should others subsidize your service? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I think, in retrospect, that after 26 years, deregulation was a disaster. > It reduced service levels, by forcing the legacies into hub-and-spoke > systems, opened the industry to the low-fares which offer great deals IF YOU > HAPPENED TO FLY WHERE THEY DO, but not otherwise. It brought with it > bus-ride service, including the "non-refundable" ticket. > If you think this is bad, what do you think AIRTRAK (a nationalized U.S. > airline) would be like? >>i think that i am for nationalizing and consolidating the current ailing >>airline industry, but doing as little damage as necesssary to employees >>and to >>passengers;whilet simultaneously also protecting the taxpayers >I’m not. We nationalized passenger railroads, putting them under the > AMTRAK >umbrella. We did so because ALL the passenger rail lines were going under. >It was impossible for them to make money as privately-run companies, no >matter how well run they were. (I think AMTRAK is an important service > that >deserves better, but that’s a separate discussion.) >Today, as others have pointed out, numerous airlines can and do make > money. >If we nationalize the turds, we are penalizing those airlines that know > how >to run their businesses, and we would be penalizing them with OUR money. >It’s no mystery why the dinosaurs are dying off worldwide. Why prop them > up >for a year or two when they will still fail?

Response:

I think, in retrospect, that after 26 years, deregulation was a disaster. It reduced service levels, by forcing the legacies into hub-and-spoke systems, opened the industry to the low-fares which offer great deals IF YOU HAPPENED TO FLY WHERE THEY DO, but not otherwise. It brought with it bus-ride service, including the "non-refundable" ticket. If you think this is bad, what do you think AIRTRAK (a nationalized U.S. airline) would be like?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i think that i am for nationalizing and consolidating the current ailing > airline industry, but doing as little damage as necesssary to employees > and to > passengers;whilet simultaneously also protecting the taxpayers > I’m not. We nationalized passenger railroads, putting them under the AMTRAK > umbrella. We did so because ALL the passenger rail lines were going under. > It was impossible for them to make money as privately-run companies, no > matter how well run they were. (I think AMTRAK is an important service that > deserves better, but that’s a separate discussion.) > Today, as others have pointed out, numerous airlines can and do make money. > If we nationalize the turds, we are penalizing those airlines that know how > to run their businesses, and we would be penalizing them with OUR money. > It’s no mystery why the dinosaurs are dying off worldwide. Why prop them up > for a year or two when they will still fail?

Response:

> i think that i am for nationalizing and consolidating the current ailing > airline industry, but doing as little damage as necesssary to employees > and to > passengers;whilet simultaneously also protecting the taxpayers

I’m not. We nationalized passenger railroads, putting them under the AMTRAK umbrella. We did so because ALL the passenger rail lines were going under. It was impossible for them to make money as privately-run companies, no matter how well run they were. (I think AMTRAK is an important service that deserves better, but that’s a separate discussion.) Today, as others have pointed out, numerous airlines can and do make money. If we nationalize the turds, we are penalizing those airlines that know how to run their businesses, and we would be penalizing them with OUR money. It’s no mystery why the dinosaurs are dying off worldwide. Why prop them up for a year or two when they will still fail?

Response:

>> The next problem is that your solution wouldn’t work since it is LOW > FARES not empty seats that is the problem.  CO recently posted an > example of a completely full flight losing money as a result. >  Do you have an URL for this?  is it on their website?

He is exaggerating when he says "completely full", but his point is accurate. Continental’s July 2004 load factor was 86.1%. That’s significantly better than what it was in the "boom times". Copied from their news releases: http://www.continental.com/company/investor/trafficnews.asp HOUSTON, Aug. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ — Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) today reported all-time records for its mainline systemwide, domestic, and international load factors for July. Systemwide mainline load factor was an all-time high of 86.1 percent, 1.6 points higher than its previous all-time record in July 2003. August 2000    HOUSTON, Aug. 1, 2000 — Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL and CAL.A) today reported the highest systemwide load factor in company history of 80.4 percent in July, 0.4 points above the previous record set in June 2000 and 2.6 points above July 1999. HOUSTON, Texas, August 2, 1999 — Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL and CAL.A) today reported a systemwide load factor of 77.8 percent in July, the highest July load factor in Continental’s history and the second highest load factor ever for the company.

Response:

Here’s what your king  thinks is essential/important: the pension plans/promises/obligations  of the troubled airlines are somewhat upheld, but there would also have to be an ex-post facto ceiling legalistically imposed of (perhaps) $200,000 in annual payments including providing for paid medical insurance as few layoffs of the current airline employees as possible, especially  in this time of economic recession–few/no new hires, however what’s not important (imho) the reported (outrageous) multi-million dollar salaries of airline executives whose companies are being subsidized by the federal govt and are now in or are on verge of bankruptcies–these guys oughtn’t be paid more than their own senior pilots what’s also not essential/important to uphold(imho) the pilot wages that are beyond a quarter million dollars annually what have i ignored? plenty, of course for instabce: the flight attendants’ pay should be equivalent to many nurses and many school teachers (approx $30,000–$50,000) i’m a pragmatist, and am trying not to be an uncandid dictator here i think that i am for nationalizing and consolidating the current ailing airline industry, but doing as little damage as necesssary to employees and to passengers;whilet simultaneously also protecting the taxpayers the current stockholders of the troubled companies would be bought-out/converted at  some bond-holding percentage, and all the bondholdings would be guaranteed and paid timely by the fed govt guarantee (since the hurting airline can’t guarantee) if skyblue, air tran, southwest etal want to stay private & stockholder held, then ok, this is america, and we don’t like total socialism/communism; but we are also for some socialistic stuff (social security, minimum wages, osha etal) when we politically decide such is necessary

Response:

> No airplane would be leaving a gate which is not (arbitrary percentage, subject > to revision) at least eighty-percent filled

So you dont see revenue as a foctor at all. They would simply give away seats for free to fill up to 80% Now, if they didnt let planes leave until they had 10,000 USD of revenue then maybe….

Response:

The next problem is that your solution wouldn’t work since it is LOW FARES not empty seats that is the problem.  CO recently posted an example of a completely full flight losing money as a result. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(caveat lecter: this is a speculative, hypothetical note written by an amateur >gadfly –horsefly– whom enjoys posting  idiotic opinions about stuff he knows >not all that much about; but still likes to play lotto, bingo, twenty-five cent >roulette & kibbitz) >If I were king/ruler/dictator of the U.S. >The ailing segment of the airline industry would now be encouraged to >"collude." >By this I mean they must undertake certain mutually beneficial >"anti-competitive" cooperative measures. >They are manifestly not currently self-sustaining. >They have recently (since 9/11) gotten some subsidies from Congress, while some >of the largest companies are bankrupt or on the verge of it >Therefore, as King of the USA: >I would "virtually consolidate" United, Delta, U.S. Air and any other which is >collapsing financially >No airplane would be leaving a gate which is not (arbitrary percentage, subject >to revision) at least eighty-percent filled >It would be against my  edict  to have too damn many vacant seats >Thus, I am ad hoc virtually nationalizing-consolidating the failing companies >Let the accountants and logistics brains workout the details. >Next problem?

Response:

(caveat lecter: this is a speculative, hypothetical note written by an amateur gadfly –horsefly– whom enjoys posting  idiotic opinions about stuff he knows not all that much about; but still likes to play lotto, bingo, twenty-five cent roulette & kibbitz) If I were king/ruler/dictator of the U.S. The ailing segment of the airline industry would now be encouraged to "collude." By this I mean they must undertake certain mutually beneficial "anti-competitive" cooperative measures. They are manifestly not currently self-sustaining. They have recently (since 9/11) gotten some subsidies from Congress, while some of the largest companies are bankrupt or on the verge of it Therefore, as King of the USA: I would "virtually consolidate" United, Delta, U.S. Air and any other which is collapsing financially No airplane would be leaving a gate which is not (arbitrary percentage, subject to revision) at least eighty-percent filled It would be against my  edict  to have too damn many vacant seats Thus, I am ad hoc virtually nationalizing-consolidating the failing companies Let the accountants and logistics brains workout the details. Next problem?

Response:

> It would be against my edict to have too damn many vacant seats > There are no vacant seats any more.  Flights are leaving full, it’s > just that the people in the seats haven’t paid enough for their > tickets to fund these carriers. > I don’t think I’ve been on one flight in the USA that wasn’t almost > 100% full in the past two years.

That may be your personal experience, better stated as "I don’t see any vacant seats any more." Otherwise, your statement is horse puckey. Some flights are full…others aren’t even half full.  Depends upon the who, when, and where of the flight! bex

Response:

>> The next problem is that your solution wouldn’t work since it is LOW > FARES not empty seats that is the problem.  CO recently posted an > example of a completely full flight losing money as a result. >  Do you have an URL for this?  is it on their website?

No, this was an internal analysis given to their employees to show them what the problems are.

Response:

> It would be against my edict to have too damn many vacant seats

There are no vacant seats any more.  Flights are leaving full, it’s just that the people in the seats haven’t paid enough for their tickets to fund these carriers. I don’t think I’ve been on one flight in the USA that wasn’t almost 100% full in the past two years. Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada

Response:

> The next problem is that your solution wouldn’t work since it is LOW > FARES not empty seats that is the problem.  CO recently posted an > example of a completely full flight losing money as a result.

  Do you have an URL for this?  is it on their website?

Response:

> (caveat lecter: this is a speculative, hypothetical note written by an amateur > gadfly –horsefly– whom enjoys posting  idiotic opinions about stuff he knows > not all that much about; but still likes to play lotto, bingo, twenty-five cent > roulette & kibbitz) > If I were king/ruler/dictator of the U.S.

There is just one problem with your solution.  Some airlines are profitable. There is profit to be made in the industry, it’s just that some companies are so badly run they can’t figure out how to do it.  So essentially what you are suggesting is rewarding failure, which is a bad idea.  The airlines either have to adapt or they can go out of business and be replaced with one that can. Matt

Response:

Question:

Hello there. Thought I repost a question with a better subject heading…. Time to restring my bass, and I miss the flatwounds I used to have on my old 4 string (I now play a 5 string mtd kingston). Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even groundwounds? I’ve seem rotosounds and Thomsticks. Any other brands? One day I’ll buy me a a P or J for the purpose…. neal. — Making low noises sine 1993!

Response:

> Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even > groundwounds?

Avoid D’Addario Chromes.  They use a super-large B string, its 0.132 or something ridiculous like that, and it’s absolutely deader than a hammer.  I have never had a set of strings with such a large difference between the B string and the rest of the strings in the set.  Just terrible. The best low-B flatwounds I’ve heard are the T-I Jazz Flats.

Response:

>Hello there. Thought I repost a question with a better subject heading…. >Time to restring my bass, and I miss the flatwounds I used to have on my old >4 string (I now play a 5 string mtd kingston). >Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even >groundwounds? I’ve seem rotosounds and Thomsticks. Any other brands? >One day I’ll buy me a a P or J for the purpose…. >neal.

LaBellas, my boy.  Deep Talkin Bass.  Work well for me on G&L

Response:

I put a set of TI Flats on one of my Ken Lawrence Brase 5’s – really nice fingerstyle sound, but not too good for slapping. If you like that sound, I’d recommend them.  I got my extra long set from Dude – totally painless and fast transaction/shipping. Dan K.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello there. Thought I repost a question with a better subject heading…. >Time to restring my bass, and I miss the flatwounds I used to have on my old >4 string (I now play a 5 string mtd kingston). >Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even >groundwounds? I’ve seem rotosounds and Thomsticks. Any other brands? >One day I’ll buy me a a P or J for the purpose…. >neal. > LaBellas, my boy.  Deep Talkin Bass.  Work well for me on G&L

Response:

>Hello there. Thought I repost a question with a better subject heading…. >Time to restring my bass, and I miss the flatwounds I used to have on my old >4 string (I now play a 5 string mtd kingston). >Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even >groundwounds? I’ve seem rotosounds and Thomsticks. Any other brands? >One day I’ll buy me a a P or J for the purpose…. >neal.

D’Addario also makes flats for fives in their Chrome series, and also makes ground rounds – "1/2 rounds" – for fives.  Thinking of trying some half-rounds myself, but I really like the spunky sound of the rounds on my new five right now. gorgon

Response:

>> Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even > groundwounds? >Avoid D’Addario Chromes.  They use a super-large B string, its 0.132 or >something ridiculous like that, and it’s absolutely deader than a hammer.  I >have never had a set of strings with such a large difference between the B >string and the rest of the strings in the set.  Just terrible. >The best low-B flatwounds I’ve heard are the T-I Jazz Flats.

Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five. gorgon

Response:

>>The best low-B flatwounds I’ve heard are the T-I Jazz Flats. >Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend >site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the >Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five.

Ummm the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat B is .136

Response:

>>>The best low-B flatwounds I’ve heard are the T-I Jazz Flats. >Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend >site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the >Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five. >Ummm the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat B is .136

Yeah, how thin do you want it?  Even roundwound B’s usually start at .125.  Besides, everyone knows that thicker is better where flats are concerned.  And don’t ever change them till they break!

Response:

>Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend >site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the >Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five. >gorgon

In many quarters, a heavier B is considered a good thing.  I liked D’Addarios when I was playing rounds, but have never used their flats, so I don’t really know.  The thing is, Brians  usually right.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>The best low-B flatwounds I’ve heard are the T-I Jazz Flats. >>Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend >>site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the >>Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five. >Ummm the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat B is .136 >Yeah, how thin do you want it?  Even roundwound B’s usually start at >.125.  Besides, everyone knows that thicker is better where flats are >concerned.  And don’t ever change them till they break!

For my hands, a little thinner just feels better.  Maybe that’s why I haven’t ever put flats on a five.  My hands aren’t all that big, and a five-string neck gives me quite a workout.  Currently I really like the T-I powerbass rounds that have a 0.119 low B. OTOH, I’ve also played Rotosound Swings that have a 0.130 so maybe I just need more sleep! gorgon

Response:

> >Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend >site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the >Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five. > Ummm the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat B is .136

Yeah but — Chromes are already the stiffest of all flatwound strings (that I’ve ever used), and that huge B string has about as much give as a piece of re-bar.  Tell you what, forget the gauge — just take my word for it, the low B string in a set of D’Addario Chromes is dead.  You pluck it and it doesn’t even make a recognizable tone, it just goes "phut." The T-Is are very flexible flats, and that translates into a very B string, in spite of the 0.136 gauge.

Response:

> Yeah, how thin do you want it?  Even roundwound B’s usually start at > .125.  Besides, everyone knows that thicker is better where flats are > concerned.  And don’t ever change them till they break!

I want it thin enough so that (1) it sounds like the rest of the strings in the set, and (2) has a decent tone.  The Chromes fail on both counts.  Also, when you get up over 0.130, you can run into problems with the nut slot not being big enough.  The string won’t bottom out in the nut, or it hangs up when stringing and tuning.  Both of these things happened with my American Deluxe Jazz V when I put the Chromes on, and since most B strings are in the 0.120-0.128 range, I wouldn’t want to do anything to cause any slop in the nut.

Response:

I actually like the d’Addario chromes on my 5 string fretless.  However, I have extremely limited experience with other brands.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello there. Thought I repost a question with a better subject heading…. >Time to restring my bass, and I miss the flatwounds I used to have on my old >4 string (I now play a 5 string mtd kingston). >Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even >groundwounds? I’ve seem rotosounds and Thomsticks. Any other brands? >One day I’ll buy me a a P or J for the purpose…. >neal. > D’Addario also makes flats for fives in their Chrome series, and also > makes ground rounds – "1/2 rounds" – for fives.  Thinking of trying > some half-rounds myself, but I really like the spunky sound of the > rounds on my new five right now. > gorgon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Just noticed that about the D’Addario Chromes on the Musician’s Friend > >site – a 0.132 low B!  Crikey.  Thanks for the heads-up.  I like the > >Chromes okay on my four, but sounds like they’re a dud for the five. > Ummm the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat B is .136 >Yeah but — Chromes are already the stiffest of all flatwound strings (that >I’ve ever used), and that huge B string has about as much give as a piece of >re-bar.  Tell you what, forget the gauge — just take my word for it, the >low B string in a set of D’Addario Chromes is dead.  You pluck it and it >doesn’t even make a recognizable tone, it just goes "phut." >The T-Is are very flexible flats, and that translates into a very B string, >in spite of the 0.136 gauge.

Now this is an interesting discussion.  Since I’m pretty new getting back into bass, it’s educational too.  I have noticed not so much that the Chromes are so stiff but that the Thomastiks seem to be the most "springy" or flexible strings I’ve used, gauge for gauge.  When I switch from my Mustang with T-I jazz flats to my P-bass clone with Chrome flats, the feel is very different.  But not bothersome – I kinda like the resistance the Chromes offer to a solid thump.  I’ve chalked the difference up at least partly to scale difference, but it’s probably more than that. The stiffest I’ve tried on a four-string are Fender flats (.055 G to .105  E string).  Made the D’Addario’s feel like buttah.  And lots, lots stiffer than the Thomastiks at .106 for the E string.  Any other similar Fender flat experiences out there?  And are there any top votes for best 5-string rounds? gorgon

Response:

> Now this is an interesting discussion.  Since I’m pretty new getting > back into bass, it’s educational too.  I have noticed not so much that > the Chromes are so stiff but that the Thomastiks seem to be the most > "springy" or flexible strings I’ve used, gauge for gauge.  When I > switch from my Mustang with T-I jazz flats to my P-bass clone with > Chrome flats, the feel is very different.  But not bothersome – I > kinda like the resistance the Chromes offer to a solid thump.  I’ve > chalked the difference up at least partly to scale difference, but > it’s probably more than that. > The stiffest I’ve tried on a four-string are Fender flats (.055 G to > .105  E string).  Made the D’Addario’s feel like buttah.  And lots, > lots stiffer than the Thomastiks at .106 for the E string.  Any other > similar Fender flat experiences out there?  And are there any top > votes for best 5-string rounds?

It’s close, but I think the Chromes are stiffer than the Fenders.  The T-Is are definitely the softest.  I have settled on GHS Precision Flats, because they have the best combination of feel and sound for me. I like stiffer strings, too.  I need that resistance, because I definitely do not play with a light touch.  I dig in.  The problem seems to be that all flatwound strings are inherently stiffer than rounds and have less sustain as a result.  When the stiffness gets to the point where it deadens the string too much, then you’ve got a problem.  The low B on the Chromes crosses that line.  The only really good flatwound B string I’ve heard yet is the T-I Jazz Flats, but unfortunately, I really don’t care for the rubbery feel of the rest of the set.  So, at the moment, I don’t have any five-stringer strung up with flats, but I’m searching around — I’ll try a set of T-I Jazz Flats on my Spector fretless (because I couldn’t get the LaBella Nylon Tapewounds to work), and I might put a set of them on my Am Deluxe Jazz, too (because Bud had a set of them on the famous Purple Linny bass at the Summit last summer, and I liked the way they felt there).  But, as I said, my favorite flats are the GHS Precision Flats, but I’ve only tried them in four-string sets.  I haven’t looked to see if they’re available in five-string sets (or if I ever did, I’ve forgotten). Like I said before, all I can really tell you is that I recommend that you avoid D’Addario Chromes five-string sets. How’s that for a mish-mash of opinion?

Response:

I have chromes on my short scale (30") Telestar V4, Fender flats on my fretted Frankenspector, TIs on my Spector 5 & some tapewound strings on my Frankenspector fretless. The TIs are a little mushy feeling, imo, but I can play them. They just require a much lighter touch than the Chomes – which, overall I prefer. I’m really chiming in here to say a word about tapewound strings. They won’t work consistantly with a fishman bridge since the piezo bridge saddle relies on a conductive string to make a ground connection. Also worth noting – If your axe is passive and requires a bridge/string ground to minimize noise – these strings are a bad idea since your body can’t make the connection with the conductive core material. An active system does not require a bridge ground so strings coated with  nonconductive material are alright if that sound is your preference. epp

Response:

Hell, I’m using a .132 round right now, and it sounds cool. What’s a flatwound low B SUPPOSED to sound like, anyway? Anything more than a rubber band, and I’d be shocked. — Learning funk bass? visit www.js3jazz.com/store.htm "Speaking the Truth in times of Universal deceit is a revolutionary act." — George Orwell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have any opnions worth sharing on 5 string flatwounds, or even > groundwounds? > Avoid D’Addario Chromes.  They use a super-large B string, its 0.132 or > something ridiculous like that, and it’s absolutely deader than a hammer. I > have never had a set of strings with such a large difference between the B > string and the rest of the strings in the set.  Just terrible. > The best low-B flatwounds I’ve heard are the T-I Jazz Flats.

Response:

I put the TI’s on my Cirrus F’less 5 and they’re great!  They warm up the tone of the Peavey nicely and feel great.  Winners for sure…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now this is an interesting discussion.  Since I’m pretty new getting > back into bass, it’s educational too.  I have noticed not so much that > the Chromes are so stiff but that the Thomastiks seem to be the most > "springy" or flexible strings I’ve used, gauge for gauge.  When I > switch from my Mustang with T-I jazz flats to my P-bass clone with > Chrome flats, the feel is very different.  But not bothersome – I > kinda like the resistance the Chromes offer to a solid thump.  I’ve > chalked the difference up at least partly to scale difference, but > it’s probably more than that. > The stiffest I’ve tried on a four-string are Fender flats (.055 G to > .105  E string).  Made the D’Addario’s feel like buttah.  And lots, > lots stiffer than the Thomastiks at .106 for the E string.  Any other > similar Fender flat experiences out there?  And are there any top > votes for best 5-string rounds? > It’s close, but I think the Chromes are stiffer than the Fenders.  The T-Is > are definitely the softest.  I have settled on GHS Precision Flats, because > they have the best combination of feel and sound for me. > I like stiffer strings, too.  I need that resistance, because I definitely > do not play with a light touch.  I dig in.  The problem seems to be that all > flatwound strings are inherently stiffer than rounds and have less sustain > as a result.  When the stiffness gets to the point where it deadens the > string too much, then you’ve got a problem.  The low B on the Chromes > crosses that line.  The only really good flatwound B string I’ve heard yet > is the T-I Jazz Flats, but unfortunately, I really don’t care for the > rubbery feel of the rest of the set.  So, at the moment, I don’t have any > five-stringer strung up with flats, but I’m searching around — I’ll try a > set of T-I Jazz Flats on my Spector fretless (because I couldn’t get the > LaBella Nylon Tapewounds to work), and I might put a set of them on my Am > Deluxe Jazz, too (because Bud had a set of them on the famous Purple Linny > bass at the Summit last summer, and I liked the way they felt there). But, > as I said, my favorite flats are the GHS Precision Flats, but I’ve only > tried them in four-string sets.  I haven’t looked to see if they’re > available in five-string sets (or if I ever did, I’ve forgotten). > Like I said before, all I can really tell you is that I recommend that you > avoid D’Addario Chromes five-string sets. > How’s that for a mish-mash of opinion?

Response:

Question:

>>BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had >to >get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe. >  Recently? Within the last six months they told me that my Caesar’s Indiana >card was now good at all casinos including Paris, Flamingo, etc.

It was June 2003.  

Response:

>>BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had >to >get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe. >  Recently? Within the last six months they told me that my Caesar’s Indiana >card was now good at all casinos including Paris, Flamingo, etc.

June 2003.  My card was good at all Caesars casinos in Vegas.  I needed a different one for Caesar’s Tahoe.  I already had a Caesar’s Tahoe card from a previous trip.  

Response:

>"Writers even write the silences" >       -J. Michael Straczynski

Hmmm… A quote from JMS…  If you’re a Babylon 5 fan then you might want to take a look at the photo gallery section on my site for The Sci-Fi Sea Cruise (listed in the sig below), as we’ve had B5 celebrity guests with us in the past, and I’m sure there are some pictures of them there, probably running around at Chichen Itza.  I’ve even asked Joe himself to come along in the past, but he’s always been way too busy to take the time off to go!  Typical of Joe, God bless him… WhoCruiser’s Personal Home Page: http://members.aol.com/WhoCruiser Read about The Sci-Fi Sea Cruise at: http://www.scificruise.com Purr-use The Cat House at: http://members.aol.com/LookAtMyCatsPage

Response:

>BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had to >get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe.

  Recently? Within the last six months they told me that my Caesar’s Indiana card was now good at all casinos including Paris, Flamingo, etc. "Writers even write the silences"        -J. Michael Straczynski

Response:

>>That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace >at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. >At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my >winnings >or writing a check. >  Can you use CP’s slot cards on the boat for credit at CP?  I know you can >use your CP slot cards to pile up points at any land based or riverboat Park >Place Casino,but don’t know if that also works at Sea.

No you can’t use your CP card on Crystal.  They don’t even have card readers on the machines.   There is not much connection between Caesars in Vegas and Caesars Palace at Sea. I had received casino credit at the Paris LV only eight months before my Crystal cruise; Paris LV is part of Caesars Entertainment.  I still had to apply for casino credit with Caesar’s Palace at Sea.  It could not be transferred form Caesars LV. BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had to get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe.

Response:

> That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace > at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. > At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my winnings > or writing a check.

You can arrange for casino credit for all the Carnival lines.         Eileen

Response:

>That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace >at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. >At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my winnings >or writing a check.

  Can you use CP’s slot cards on the boat for credit at CP?  I know you can use your CP slot cards to pile up points at any land based or riverboat Park Place Casino,but don’t know if that also works at Sea. "Writers even write the silences"        -J. Michael Straczynski

Response:

> I was on the Legend last year. I won $500 in a Blackjack tournement, and I do > not play the game! It is a $20 entry fee, and loads of fun.

It is fun, buddy. > They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but I > think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that.

Actually, the limit is $1500/day.  It’s also important to note that they now charge a 3% fee, so you’re actually better off paying the $5.00 ATM fee/day, and drawing the maximum amount you can.  As far as I know, RCCL and Celebrity still charge no fee.  On those ships, I charge all the cash I need (tips, etc.) and then some (my bank gives me a rebate on charges). Howie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mike Steen > Texas

Response:

>They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but I >think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that.

  Do not konw about the Carnivals, but the other I have been on take a REAL hefty commission (IIRC it was 3% on the Golden) when you charge casino money to your account. About as bad as the non-ATM "Casino Cash" machines you see in the land-based casinos. "Writers even write the silences"        -J. Michael Straczynski

Response:

>>They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but >I >think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that. >  Do not konw about the Carnivals, but the other I have been on take a REAL >hefty commission (IIRC it was 3% on the Golden) when you charge casino money >to your account. About as bad as the non-ATM "Casino Cash" machines you see >in >the land-based casinos.

That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my winnings or writing a check.

Response:

I was on the Legend last year. I won $500 in a Blackjack tournement, and I do not play the game! It is a $20 entry fee, and loads of fun. They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but I think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that. Mike Steen Texas

Response:

I would like to know how you pay to play slots on the Legend.  Is the money charged to your S&S card, or can you use cash? Are the slot machines US coin or tokens? I have a big bottle of quarters that I was hoping to play slots with. — Maybe it’s all too simple, for our big brains to figure out… What if the hokey pokey is really what it’s all about?    JB

Response:

> I would like to know how you pay to play slots on the Legend.  Is the > money charged to your S&S card, or can you use cash? > Are the slot machines US coin or tokens? > I have a big bottle of quarters that I was hoping to play slots with.

I suggest you bring your quarters to the bank, and get bills.  It will make your life so much easier.  If you’re into lifting weight, they have a very nice gym on the ship that offers a much better workout than schlepping a jar of quarters around. Howie

Response:

I would like to know how you pay to play slots on the Legend.  Is the money charged to your S&S card, or can you use cash? Are the slot machines US coin or tokens? I have a big bottle of quarters that I was hoping to play slots with. — Maybe it’s all too simple, for our big brains to figure out… What if the hokey pokey is really what it’s all about?    JB

Response:

> I would like to know how you pay to play slots on the Legend.  Is the > money charged to your S&S card, or can you use cash? > Are the slot machines US coin or tokens? > I have a big bottle of quarters that I was hoping to play slots with.

I suggest you bring your quarters to the bank, and get bills.  It will make your life so much easier.  If you’re into lifting weight, they have a very nice gym on the ship that offers a much better workout than schlepping a jar of quarters around. Howie

Response:

I was on the Legend last year. I won $500 in a Blackjack tournement, and I do not play the game! It is a $20 entry fee, and loads of fun. They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but I think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that. Mike Steen Texas

Response:

> I was on the Legend last year. I won $500 in a Blackjack tournement, and I do > not play the game! It is a $20 entry fee, and loads of fun.

It is fun, buddy. > They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but I > think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that.

Actually, the limit is $1500/day.  It’s also important to note that they now charge a 3% fee, so you’re actually better off paying the $5.00 ATM fee/day, and drawing the maximum amount you can.  As far as I know, RCCL and Celebrity still charge no fee.  On those ships, I charge all the cash I need (tips, etc.) and then some (my bank gives me a rebate on charges). Howie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mike Steen > Texas

Response:

>They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but I >think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that.

  Do not konw about the Carnivals, but the other I have been on take a REAL hefty commission (IIRC it was 3% on the Golden) when you charge casino money to your account. About as bad as the non-ATM "Casino Cash" machines you see in the land-based casinos. "Writers even write the silences"        -J. Michael Straczynski

Response:

>>They take cash in the casino. You can charge to your sail and sign card, but >I >think there is a $250 dollar per day limit, or something like that. >  Do not konw about the Carnivals, but the other I have been on take a REAL >hefty commission (IIRC it was 3% on the Golden) when you charge casino money >to your account. About as bad as the non-ATM "Casino Cash" machines you see >in >the land-based casinos.

That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my winnings or writing a check.

Response:

> That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace > at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. > At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my winnings > or writing a check.

You can arrange for casino credit for all the Carnival lines.         Eileen

Response:

>That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace >at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. >At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my winnings >or writing a check.

  Can you use CP’s slot cards on the boat for credit at CP?  I know you can use your CP slot cards to pile up points at any land based or riverboat Park Place Casino,but don’t know if that also works at Sea. "Writers even write the silences"        -J. Michael Straczynski

Response:

>>That’s one of the reason I like Crystal.  At their casino, Caesars Palace >at Sea, I can get casino credit.  I sign my marker each time I want cash. >At the end of the voyage I settle by either giving them cash from my >winnings >or writing a check. >  Can you use CP’s slot cards on the boat for credit at CP?  I know you can >use your CP slot cards to pile up points at any land based or riverboat Park >Place Casino,but don’t know if that also works at Sea.

No you can’t use your CP card on Crystal.  They don’t even have card readers on the machines.   There is not much connection between Caesars in Vegas and Caesars Palace at Sea. I had received casino credit at the Paris LV only eight months before my Crystal cruise; Paris LV is part of Caesars Entertainment.  I still had to apply for casino credit with Caesar’s Palace at Sea.  It could not be transferred form Caesars LV. BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had to get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe.

Response:

>BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had to >get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe.

  Recently? Within the last six months they told me that my Caesar’s Indiana card was now good at all casinos including Paris, Flamingo, etc. "Writers even write the silences"        -J. Michael Straczynski

Response:

>>BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had >to >get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe. >  Recently? Within the last six months they told me that my Caesar’s Indiana >card was now good at all casinos including Paris, Flamingo, etc.

It was June 2003.  

Response:

>>BTW, you can’t use your Player’s club from LV card at Caesars Tahoe.  I had >to >get a new card when I played at Caesars Tahoe. >  Recently? Within the last six months they told me that my Caesar’s Indiana >card was now good at all casinos including Paris, Flamingo, etc.

June 2003.  My card was good at all Caesars casinos in Vegas.  I needed a different one for Caesar’s Tahoe.  I already had a Caesar’s Tahoe card from a previous trip.  

Response:

>"Writers even write the silences" >       -J. Michael Straczynski

Hmmm… A quote from JMS…  If you’re a Babylon 5 fan then you might want to take a look at the photo gallery section on my site for The Sci-Fi Sea Cruise (listed in the sig below), as we’ve had B5 celebrity guests with us in the past, and I’m sure there are some pictures of them there, probably running around at Chichen Itza.  I’ve even asked Joe himself to come along in the past, but he’s always been way too busy to take the time off to go!  Typical of Joe, God bless him… WhoCruiser’s Personal Home Page: http://members.aol.com/WhoCruiser Read about The Sci-Fi Sea Cruise at: http://www.scificruise.com Purr-use The Cat House at: http://members.aol.com/LookAtMyCatsPage

Response:

Question:

There is something that is hard to describe when playing with a horn section. It’s fullfilling, it’s nice and stuff. I once saw a band that only had one trumpet player, but he had whatever device that made him sound like a whole section, and it sounded really cool. The band itself sucked big time, cuz there were no bass player (but 2 guitarists) and the drummer could only play

Question:

> Water drinking to stay alert? Thats a new one…i usually drink water during > a gig becuase i’m thirsty! Well…you learn a new thing every day…

Dehydration.  One of the first signs is lethargy. —   O> /()                           ^^                                                      Slidell, LA

Response:

> Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for > our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27),

Gents, Now I am old….in the 30’s (gulp). Just don’t go nuts on the water thing…too much water can hurt you. Water poisoning…you end up depleting all your vitamins and electrolytes, because you dilute everything in your body, and you lose much of it in your piss. At the gig, maybe some good old Gatorade?  Essentially it is flavored "sweat"…it has everything your body needs after a workout. You could also exercise regularly, get enough rest, etc. instead? (Stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.) Daniel

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for >our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27), >always complain that we are tired after the first set (usually around >midnight). >This will be our second water drinking experiment.  We first tried about a >month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we >felt and played great all night. >We shall see. >Jordan > I am not surprised. I haven’t been to a doctor in 12 years. I am sort > of a naturopath/alternative medicine person. > I have found that drinking enough water getting enough sleep, getting > _some_ kind of exercise besides beer curls, and having a reasonable > diet covers a multitude of small health problems.

Hi, Dehydration makes you tired. So, no wonder. Most people don’t drink enough per day to begin with any way. Dehydration also weakens your immune system. An example, dehydrated = tired = catch flu. Make sense? Tony

Response:

Water drinking to stay alert? Thats a new one…i usually drink water during a gig becuase i’m thirsty! Well…you learn a new thing every day… — Kristoff Lajoie www.kristoff.4t.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for > our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27), > always complain that we are tired after the first set (usually around > midnight). > This will be our second water drinking experiment.  We first tried about a > month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we > felt and played great all night. > We shall see. > Jordan

Response:

> Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for > our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27), > always complain that we are tired after the first set (usually around > midnight). > This will be our second water drinking experiment.  We first tried about a > month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we > felt and played great all night. > We shall see. > Jordan

I am not surprised. I haven’t been to a doctor in 12 years. I am sort of a naturopath/alternative medicine person. I have found that drinking enough water getting enough sleep, getting _some_ kind of exercise besides beer curls, and having a reasonable diet covers a multitude of small health problems.

Response:

Well it was a great gig!  My joints were nice and lubed. I’m glad I skipped coffee today. It also helped that the sound was top notch! We’ve had a string of bad gigs… the demoralzing kind.  Last week we played at a new place that we had been wanting to play for awhile.  The owner turned out to be straight from the jerk store, and the cables on the PA system were literally twist tied together in some places.  He really messed up our sound and then cussed at us and called us unprofessional when we asked him why there was no sound coming out of the right speaker. On the negative, a tube went bad in my head tonight at soundcheck.  I phoned a buddy and he arrived with his Fender 1×12 combo within 20 minutes!!  It saved the day and ended up being a great gig. My new Roscoe Beck was totally fun to play with the wide spacing.  I had some musicians come up and compliment its tone, but not as many as complimented the Zon Legacy 6..  that thing is just so much fun to play, and the sound is amazingly thumpy and full.  Wonderful sustain, and I can play it all night long with no shoulder or hand fatigue. People have been making fun of me for showing up to every gig with two different basses.  Life is good. Jordan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We first tried about a > month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we > felt and played great all night. > We shall see. > Keep us updated please, and good luck! > I find the need to pee helps me focus on the music, and the toe tapping > is a no brainer.  Just hope it’s an up tempo set > — >   O> > /() >   ^^                                                      Slidell, LA

Response:

"They" say that by the time you are thirsty you are not drinking enough water.  That sounds kind of obvious I guess, but the point is that you should not wait until you are thirsty to drink water.  Rather, you should routinely drink it throughout every day. Jordan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Water drinking to stay alert? Thats a new one…i usually drink water during > a gig becuase i’m thirsty! Well…you learn a new thing every day… > — > Kristoff Lajoie > www.kristoff.4t.com > Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for > our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27), > always complain that we are tired after the first set (usually around > midnight). > This will be our second water drinking experiment.  We first tried about a > month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, > we > felt and played great all night. > We shall see. > Jordan

Response:

Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27), always complain that we are tired after the first set (usually around midnight). This will be our second water drinking experiment.  We first tried about a month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we felt and played great all night. We shall see. Jordan

Response:

Nah, fish f*** in it.  I hate fish. Ian "People ain’t no good." Lux Interior.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today my drummer and I are both at our respective jobs drinking water for > our gig tonight.  You see, we, being the old men that we are (26 & 27), > always complain that we are tired after the first set (usually around > midnight). > This will be our second water drinking experiment.  We first tried about a > month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we > felt and played great all night. > We shall see. > Jordan

Response:

> We first tried about a > month ago, and aside from having to go potty in between every other song, we > felt and played great all night. > We shall see.

Keep us updated please, and good luck! I find the need to pee helps me focus on the music, and the toe tapping is a no brainer.  Just hope it’s an up tempo set —   O> /()                           ^^                                                      Slidell, LA

Response:

Question:

Be happy.  You drive cheap transportation.  Anything past 10 years is pure gravy and you’re pushing 16. Want a pretty car?  Costs $30,000.  No, those rattles and holes in the upholstery are music to my ears and candy for my eyes.

Response:

> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together,

…as is the case with just about every car made in the last several decades… > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. Is that really how Chrysler did it?

No, it’s a carefully-crafted illusion designed explicitly to make you look like an idiot on this group when you rant and rave instead of simply purchasing replacement nylon bushings for very little money, installing them and enjoying another 16 years’ worth of quiet windshield wiping.

Response:

> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. > Is that really how Chrysler did it?  

Dude, that’s how EVERYBODY did it (and still do it) ever since plastics became rugged enough. Older cars (like my ‘66) use bronze bushings with C-clips, and you should HEAR the clanking that they make even when tight. They’re also not replaceable. Plastic is actually better in that application, if you ask my opinion. You can get a blister pack of brand new nylon wiper linkage bushings for a buck in the "Help!" section at any parts store. Pre-greased and ready to snap in place.

Response:

Oh, okay, I didn’t realize this… And I really wasn’t ranting and raving… I love my little ole Chrysler. What threw me was there that wasn’t even a metal clip.  Hell, my 1992 Geo Metro at least has metal clips holding the linkage together.  There are plastic bushings, too, but a clip keeps everything snug. I live in BFE and the parts store here is about useless.  I have to travel about 45 miles to get to a decent parts store that stocks little things like these bushings or can actually order special items. I’m still hoping to find a factory service manual on eBay! -Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. > Is that really how Chrysler did it? > Dude, that’s how EVERYBODY did it (and still do it) ever since plastics > became rugged enough. Older cars (like my ‘66) use bronze bushings with > C-clips, and you should HEAR the clanking that they make even when > tight. They’re also not replaceable. Plastic is actually better in that > application, if you ask my opinion. You can get a blister pack of brand > new nylon wiper linkage bushings for a buck in the "Help!" section at > any parts store. Pre-greased and ready to snap in place.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I should have been drinking when I put the bastards in!  The fit was very tight and there is extremely little room to work.  Not to mention all of the very sharp flsh left on the raw edges of sheetmetal in that area… Took me quite some time to get them to snap in and I used muscles I never knew I had… contorting around the hood and getting my hands up in where the linkage is…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had bushings. > "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all is > fine and dandy now… > Don’t forget the illustrious discussion you had without even buying someone a > beer > Fortunately news groups like this one have all kinds of suggestions  that > usually put one on the correct track. For humor you should go and read some of > the news groups where the main agenda/title of the NG has been subverted into > attacks on racism, electric trains or whatever is blowing that particular day. > Come to think of it, I have never seen and discussion about oil changes on steam > engines on this NG. But then understand Chrysler never made any cars with those > engines.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

See what you got besides the illustrious conversation – a Jane Fonda workout without Hanoi Jane. Better that wayI  You have the car. Ted has Jane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I should have been drinking when I put the bastards in!  The fit was very > tight and there is extremely little room to work.  Not to mention all of the > very sharp flsh left on the raw edges of sheetmetal in that area… > Took me quite some time to get them to snap in and I used muscles I never > knew I had… contorting around the hood and getting my hands up in where > the linkage is… > > Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had > bushings. > > "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all > is > > fine and dandy now… > Don’t forget the illustrious discussion you had without even buying > someone a > beer > Fortunately news groups like this one have all kinds of suggestions  that > usually put one on the correct track. For humor you should go and read > some of > the news groups where the main agenda/title of the NG has been subverted > into > attacks on racism, electric trains or whatever is blowing that particular > day. > Come to think of it, I have never seen and discussion about oil changes on > steam > engines on this NG. But then understand Chrysler never made any cars with > those > engines. > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

No he doesn’t!!!

Response:

> Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had bushings. > "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all is > fine and dandy now…

Don’t forget the illustrious discussion you had without even buying someone a beer Fortunately news groups like this one have all kinds of suggestions  that usually put one on the correct track. For humor you should go and read some of the news groups where the main agenda/title of the NG has been subverted into attacks on racism, electric trains or whatever is blowing that particular day. Come to think of it, I have never seen and discussion about oil changes on steam engines on this NG. But then understand Chrysler never made any cars with those engines.

Response:

Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had bushings. "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all is fine and dandy now…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The car is a 1987 Fifth Avenue.  The wiper linkage makes a horrible clanking > as the wipers run and there is a lot of play in the arms.  So, I decide > fixing the wipers will be today’s project.  I figured I would tighten up the > nuts on the linkage, add a few dabs of grease here and there and I’d be all > set. > Hah!  Right… > From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. > Is that really how Chrysler did it?  Just plastic clips and not actual nuts > secured to bolts?  I sure couldn’t feel any threads on the "pins" that > protrude and allow the various parts of the linkage to fit together. > -Steve > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I really wasn’t ranting and raving.  I just was a bit surprised to see that there wasn’t even a metal clip holding things snug.  One of my other vehicles has plastic bushings, but it’s topped off with a metal clip that wraps around to keep things snug. And, the parts store I have here out in BFE is not the best.  I questioned about new bushings and they said I was out of luck…  Another Steve has posted and suggested that I can find generic bushings, so when i do my weekly trip into town and to a REAL parts store I will see what I can find. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, > …as is the case with just about every car made in the last several > decades… > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. Is that really how Chrysler did it? > No, it’s a carefully-crafted illusion designed explicitly to make you look > like an idiot on this group when you rant and rave instead of simply > purchasing replacement nylon bushings for very little money, installing > them and enjoying another 16 years’ worth of quiet windshield wiping.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> Is that really how Chrysler did it?  Just plastic clips and not actual nuts > secured to bolts?  I sure couldn’t feel any threads on the "pins" that > protrude and allow the various parts of the linkage to fit together.

As opposed to what? On my 70 ‘cuda, I spent an entire day brazing the (worn out) bronze wiper linkage bushings shut and then re-drilling and reaming them to correct size to get them quiet and to park properly.

Response:

The car is a 1987 Fifth Avenue.  The wiper linkage makes a horrible clanking as the wipers run and there is a lot of play in the arms.  So, I decide fixing the wipers will be today’s project.  I figured I would tighten up the nuts on the linkage, add a few dabs of grease here and there and I’d be all set. Hah!  Right… From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the bushings. Is that really how Chrysler did it?  Just plastic clips and not actual nuts secured to bolts?  I sure couldn’t feel any threads on the "pins" that protrude and allow the various parts of the linkage to fit together. -Steve — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

The car is a 1987 Fifth Avenue.  The wiper linkage makes a horrible clanking as the wipers run and there is a lot of play in the arms.  So, I decide fixing the wipers will be today’s project.  I figured I would tighten up the nuts on the linkage, add a few dabs of grease here and there and I’d be all set. Hah!  Right… From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the bushings. Is that really how Chrysler did it?  Just plastic clips and not actual nuts secured to bolts?  I sure couldn’t feel any threads on the "pins" that protrude and allow the various parts of the linkage to fit together. -Steve — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> Is that really how Chrysler did it?  Just plastic clips and not actual nuts > secured to bolts?  I sure couldn’t feel any threads on the "pins" that > protrude and allow the various parts of the linkage to fit together.

As opposed to what? On my 70 ‘cuda, I spent an entire day brazing the (worn out) bronze wiper linkage bushings shut and then re-drilling and reaming them to correct size to get them quiet and to park properly.

Response:

Be happy.  You drive cheap transportation.  Anything past 10 years is pure gravy and you’re pushing 16. Want a pretty car?  Costs $30,000.  No, those rattles and holes in the upholstery are music to my ears and candy for my eyes.

Response:

> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together,

…as is the case with just about every car made in the last several decades… > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. Is that really how Chrysler did it?

No, it’s a carefully-crafted illusion designed explicitly to make you look like an idiot on this group when you rant and rave instead of simply purchasing replacement nylon bushings for very little money, installing them and enjoying another 16 years’ worth of quiet windshield wiping.

Response:

> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. > Is that really how Chrysler did it?  

Dude, that’s how EVERYBODY did it (and still do it) ever since plastics became rugged enough. Older cars (like my ‘66) use bronze bushings with C-clips, and you should HEAR the clanking that they make even when tight. They’re also not replaceable. Plastic is actually better in that application, if you ask my opinion. You can get a blister pack of brand new nylon wiper linkage bushings for a buck in the "Help!" section at any parts store. Pre-greased and ready to snap in place.

Response:

Oh, okay, I didn’t realize this… And I really wasn’t ranting and raving… I love my little ole Chrysler. What threw me was there that wasn’t even a metal clip.  Hell, my 1992 Geo Metro at least has metal clips holding the linkage together.  There are plastic bushings, too, but a clip keeps everything snug. I live in BFE and the parts store here is about useless.  I have to travel about 45 miles to get to a decent parts store that stocks little things like these bushings or can actually order special items. I’m still hoping to find a factory service manual on eBay! -Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. > Is that really how Chrysler did it? > Dude, that’s how EVERYBODY did it (and still do it) ever since plastics > became rugged enough. Older cars (like my ‘66) use bronze bushings with > C-clips, and you should HEAR the clanking that they make even when > tight. They’re also not replaceable. Plastic is actually better in that > application, if you ask my opinion. You can get a blister pack of brand > new nylon wiper linkage bushings for a buck in the "Help!" section at > any parts store. Pre-greased and ready to snap in place.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I really wasn’t ranting and raving.  I just was a bit surprised to see that there wasn’t even a metal clip holding things snug.  One of my other vehicles has plastic bushings, but it’s topped off with a metal clip that wraps around to keep things snug. And, the parts store I have here out in BFE is not the best.  I questioned about new bushings and they said I was out of luck…  Another Steve has posted and suggested that I can find generic bushings, so when i do my weekly trip into town and to a REAL parts store I will see what I can find. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, > …as is the case with just about every car made in the last several > decades… > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. Is that really how Chrysler did it? > No, it’s a carefully-crafted illusion designed explicitly to make you look > like an idiot on this group when you rant and rave instead of simply > purchasing replacement nylon bushings for very little money, installing > them and enjoying another 16 years’ worth of quiet windshield wiping.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had bushings. "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all is fine and dandy now…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The car is a 1987 Fifth Avenue.  The wiper linkage makes a horrible clanking > as the wipers run and there is a lot of play in the arms.  So, I decide > fixing the wipers will be today’s project.  I figured I would tighten up the > nuts on the linkage, add a few dabs of grease here and there and I’d be all > set. > Hah!  Right… > From what I can gather, the reason my wiper linkage clanks and clatters is > that there are no actually nuts and bolts holding the linkgae together, just > a pin and some plastic bushings/grommets.  And of course, being 16 years > old, the bushings are all deteriorated and three pins are missing the > bushings. > Is that really how Chrysler did it?  Just plastic clips and not actual nuts > secured to bolts?  I sure couldn’t feel any threads on the "pins" that > protrude and allow the various parts of the linkage to fit together. > -Steve > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had bushings. > "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all is > fine and dandy now…

Don’t forget the illustrious discussion you had without even buying someone a beer Fortunately news groups like this one have all kinds of suggestions  that usually put one on the correct track. For humor you should go and read some of the news groups where the main agenda/title of the NG has been subverted into attacks on racism, electric trains or whatever is blowing that particular day. Come to think of it, I have never seen and discussion about oil changes on steam engines on this NG. But then understand Chrysler never made any cars with those engines.

Response:

I should have been drinking when I put the bastards in!  The fit was very tight and there is extremely little room to work.  Not to mention all of the very sharp flsh left on the raw edges of sheetmetal in that area… Took me quite some time to get them to snap in and I used muscles I never knew I had… contorting around the hood and getting my hands up in where the linkage is…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had bushings. > "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all is > fine and dandy now… > Don’t forget the illustrious discussion you had without even buying someone a > beer > Fortunately news groups like this one have all kinds of suggestions  that > usually put one on the correct track. For humor you should go and read some of > the news groups where the main agenda/title of the NG has been subverted into > attacks on racism, electric trains or whatever is blowing that particular day. > Come to think of it, I have never seen and discussion about oil changes on steam > engines on this NG. But then understand Chrysler never made any cars with those > engines.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

See what you got besides the illustrious conversation – a Jane Fonda workout without Hanoi Jane. Better that wayI  You have the car. Ted has Jane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I should have been drinking when I put the bastards in!  The fit was very > tight and there is extremely little room to work.  Not to mention all of the > very sharp flsh left on the raw edges of sheetmetal in that area… > Took me quite some time to get them to snap in and I used muscles I never > knew I had… contorting around the hood and getting my hands up in where > the linkage is… > > Had to visit three parts stores, but finally found one that had > bushings. > > "Help!" brand.  $3.00 for two bushings.  I bought two packages and all > is > > fine and dandy now… > Don’t forget the illustrious discussion you had without even buying > someone a > beer > Fortunately news groups like this one have all kinds of suggestions  that > usually put one on the correct track. For humor you should go and read > some of > the news groups where the main agenda/title of the NG has been subverted > into > attacks on racism, electric trains or whatever is blowing that particular > day. > Come to think of it, I have never seen and discussion about oil changes on > steam > engines on this NG. But then understand Chrysler never made any cars with > those > engines. > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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No he doesn’t!!!

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Question:

If it hasn’t already been suggested to you, be VERY CAREFUL with the gripmaster.  I know several guys who gained finger strength only to wind up with carpal tunnel and/or tendinitis from using the damned thing. Doc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I found my finger/fonger/fenger/fanger/funger endurance has increased using > a gripmaster–I do countless reps during my commute to and from work. > Additionally, when I did lead a somewhat active life, I found cramps to be > related to questionable nutrition (a potential electrolyte thing, I’ve been > told) and hydration.  Gotta keep the machinery fed and watered, in other > words. > My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > Any way you want it > Tom Sawyer > Higher Ground (RHCP) > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > Where the Streets Have No Name > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy. > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > four hours of sweating on stage. > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > only keep my endurance level up. > best > gr

Response:

Yikes, but now I know!  Thanks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If it hasn’t already been suggested to you, be VERY CAREFUL with the > gripmaster.  I know several guys who gained finger strength only to wind > up with carpal tunnel and/or tendinitis from using the damned thing. > Doc > I found my finger/fonger/fenger/fanger/funger endurance has increased using > a gripmaster–I do countless reps during my commute to and from work. > Additionally, when I did lead a somewhat active life, I found cramps to be > related to questionable nutrition (a potential electrolyte thing, I’ve been > told) and hydration.  Gotta keep the machinery fed and watered, in other > words. > > My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > > Any way you want it > > Tom Sawyer > > Higher Ground (RHCP) > > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > > Where the Streets Have No Name > > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > > last two are comparatively easy. > > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > > four hours of sweating on stage. > > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > > only keep my endurance level up. > > best > > gr

Response:

> Make sure you keep yourself hydrated when you play!  If you drink a lot of > water, it will help keep you from cramping. >                                      Aloha, Jerry

Yes, I’ve moved from drinking beer to drinking water for most gigs.   Breaking that mental connection took a while. best gr

Response:

>>At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping >up halfway through the Journey song, the solo >section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the >riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about >half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The >last two are comparatively easy. > I have the same problem but I never played gig or something. > So when my hand starts cramping I try not to play every "sound" : for > example only first sound in a tact ( Damn , again sory for my english :/ )

I get your meaning.  For some reason, I tend to dig in too much on the Journey song, so I’ve been trying to not play so hard on that song.  That eases the stress similarly to not playing as many notes. best gr

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> At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy.

I have the same problem but I never played gig or something. So when my hand starts cramping I try not to play every "sound" : for example only first sound in a tact ( Damn , again sory for my english :/ )

Response:

I get in the same shape at the end of the night.  I REALLY notice it if I have not been practicing.  Then the dreaded "CLAW HAND" sets in, and it’s over.  Last year, I played a bebop gig on upright for New Years eve, and just died by the end of the sets.  This year, the same kind of gigs are no problem.  The difference was just practicing time.  You are correct sir! Practice More! David DeVos – I’m JUST the bass player http://www.amyyoung.org http://www.tallmadgemill.com/rcmusic.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > Any way you want it > Tom Sawyer > Higher Ground (RHCP) > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > Where the Streets Have No Name > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy. > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > four hours of sweating on stage. > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > only keep my endurance level up. > best > gr

Response:

> You might look at technique as well, perhaps you are expending hand/ forearm > muscle energy in ways that are counterproductive to simply playing the Bass.

I’m fairly efficient, and am very careful about keeping my wrists in a stress free position. Thanks for the pointer. gr

Response:

> maybe you should try practicing after a long run or gym session…

Jumping around on stage is about the only cardio workout I get, so just taking a long run would be a start best gr

Response:

Make sure you keep yourself hydrated when you play!  If you drink a lot of water, it will help keep you from cramping.                                      Aloha, Jerry

Response:

I found my finger/fonger/fenger/fanger/funger endurance has increased using a gripmaster–I do countless reps during my commute to and from work. Additionally, when I did lead a somewhat active life, I found cramps to be related to questionable nutrition (a potential electrolyte thing, I’ve been told) and hydration.  Gotta keep the machinery fed and watered, in other words.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > Any way you want it > Tom Sawyer > Higher Ground (RHCP) > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > Where the Streets Have No Name > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy. > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > four hours of sweating on stage. > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > only keep my endurance level up. > best > gr

Response:

> Additionally, when I did lead a somewhat active life, I found cramps to be > related to questionable nutrition (a potential electrolyte thing, I’ve been > told) and hydration.  Gotta keep the machinery fed and watered, in other > words.

Potassium IIRC.  Banannanas-s. —   O> /()   ^^

Response:

You might look at technique as well, perhaps you are expending hand/ forearm muscle energy in ways that are counterproductive to simply playing the Bass. NeilN — In the beginning there was a bass. It was a Fender, probably a Precision, but it could have been a Jazz – nobody knows. Anyway, it was very old … definitely pre-C.B.S. http://www.papabear.com/bassbook.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > Any way you want it > Tom Sawyer > Higher Ground (RHCP) > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > Where the Streets Have No Name > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy. > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > four hours of sweating on stage. > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > only keep my endurance level up. > best > gr

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > Any way you want it > Tom Sawyer > Higher Ground (RHCP) > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > Where the Streets Have No Name > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy. > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > four hours of sweating on stage. > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > only keep my endurance level up. > best > gr

the hills’ towards the end of the set and my right fingers simply slowed down playing all those triplets, bringing this song and another finger basher, ‘What you’re doing’ (RUSH), forward eases the finger exhaustion. — AlunP www.jurassica.org

Response:

maybe you should try practicing after a long run or gym session… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour > sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. > Here’s the last 5 songs we play: > Any way you want it > Tom Sawyer > Higher Ground (RHCP) > Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) > Where the Streets Have No Name > At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping > up halfway through the Journey song, the solo > section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the > riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about > half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The > last two are comparatively easy. > So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because > you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t > mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after > four hours of sweating on stage. > And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if > only keep my endurance level up. > best > gr

Response:

My dance rock band typically plays 3 one hour sets over the course of a 4 hour time period. Here’s the last 5 songs we play: Any way you want it Tom Sawyer Higher Ground (RHCP) Smooth Criminal (Alien Ant Farm) Where the Streets Have No Name At this point in the night, my hand starts cramping up halfway through the Journey song, the solo section in Tom Sawyer gets a little sloppy, and the riff at the end of the chorus of HG evades me about half the time.  And this is totally sober.  The last two are comparatively easy. So I’m just putting the idea out there that just because you can play something easily when you’re fresh, doesn’t mean you’ll be able to play it quite as easily after four hours of sweating on stage. And as a reminder to myself to practice more, if only keep my endurance level up. best gr

Response:

Question:

Thanks for that, i’ll give that a go! Cheers, Jon

Response:

> When I play out with my rock group this song is the most requested. > We will play it on occasion. > Usually the last song of the night and we make it last for 15 minutes. > Dualing harmonized solos sound good once you figure them out. > I usually play bass on this one and it is a lot of work, but fun. > We do a couple other Skynyrd songs too that go over well. > That Smell and Simple Man. > Pt

We do Gimme Three steps, Simple Man, and Sweet Home Alabama

Response:

>Hi Pt. Thanks again. >I was always partial to "The Ballad Of Curtis Lowe". >But then I play steel. >Go figure.

I didn’t know you played a steel. I have always wanted to dig in to one but every time I had the money I bought a guitar or amp. I love the sound of a steel. Do you play a lap steel or a pedal steel? I almost bought a Shobud a couple months ago but I chickened out and bought a GR-30 guitar synth instead. Pt

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>We do Gimme Three steps, Simple Man, and Sweet Home Alabama

What key do you play Sweet Home Alabama in?  ;-) Pt

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I have only been playing Skynyrd songs for a couple years now. I have a video of several of their concerts before the plane crash. To watch/listen to them you would think that they are jamming with improvised solos but every note has been worked out to a tee. The more I get in to their music the more I see genius. Pt

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I could not agree more. The "new" lineup appeared on Austin City Limits a while ago and the mix was horrible. I kept thinking it would eventually get better but it never did. Maybe the sound man was asleep. No, that can’t be right. Nobody could sleep through that. He must have been dead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have only been playing Skynyrd songs for a couple years now. > I have a video of several of their concerts before the plane crash. > To watch/listen to them you would think that they are jamming with > improvised solos but every note has been worked out to a tee. > The more I get in to their music the more I see genius. > Pt

Response:

When I play out with my rock group this song is the most requested. We will play it on occasion. Usually the last song of the night and we make it last for 15 minutes. Dualing harmonized solos sound good once you figure them out. I usually play bass on this one and it is a lot of work, but fun. We do a couple other Skynyrd songs too that go over well. That Smell and Simple Man. Pt

Response:

Hi Pt. Thanks again. I was always partial to "The Ballad Of Curtis Lowe". But then I play steel. Go figure. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > When I play out with my rock group this song is the most requested. > We will play it on occasion. > Usually the last song of the night and we make it last for 15 minutes. > Dualing harmonized solos sound good once you figure them out. > I usually play bass on this one and it is a lot of work, but fun. > We do a couple other Skynyrd songs too that go over well. > That Smell and Simple Man. > Pt

Response:

That is a pretty cool song.  I listened to and played along with bits of the solo and its certainly in g minor pentatonics.  Just to say the feedback was aimed at anyone!  I would really like to know if i’ve missed anythin or something wasnt quite right. Jon

Response:

The sorta wah guitar sliding in the round in the back plays mostly in G major.  Think he may include the odd notes in f-major, not too sure, played it a couple of times, but not that overly bothered. Sorry, if is of no intrest to anyone! Jon

Response:

This is a great example of keys and not sticking *too* much by the key sig. "Freebird" is certainly in the key of G. Most of the chords relate to the scale that is spelled G, A, B, C, D, E, F#. However, the chords are G–>D/F#–>Em–>F–>C–>D. The chords for the solo are G–>Bb–>C. You’ve got chords that are "borrowed" from different related keys. In the verse section, the F chord is borrowed from G Mixolydian (otherwise known as C Major). If you were to solo over this section, you’d use G Major, with some care taken over the F chord, so as to substitute the F note instead of the F#. If you’re using G Major Pentatonic, then there’s no concern, as there *is* no F# in the scale as well as no F in the scale. However, to sound like you really know the changes and sound more "inside", you may want to occasionally throw in the F natural over the F chord. Same as when playing over the G, C, and especially D chords; it sounds much more tonal and professional if you include the F# over these chords, just to really drive home the key you’re soloing in. Over the solo section, we’re talking about a "borrowed" chord from G minor: Bb. Bb Major and G Major don’t agree in one key center. Bb and C could be considered from the key of F, but in that key, the chord built on G would be G minor. This is where the G minor pentatonic scale works best. It sounds like a bluesy alternate scale over G Major, and like something from the key of Bb or F over the Bb and C chords. Is all of this necessary to think about while soloing over this section? No, one could just use the G minor pent scale and it will work fine. However, another option might be to include a B natural note occasionally, but only over the G Major chord. This will make it sound like you really know the changes and open people’s ears up more when you solo on this tune. You could also use F Major Pent, which would give a Dorian flavor over the whole thing, and consider throwing in the occasional B natural note when playing over the G Major chord. Now you’re not just stuck to one scale, one position. You have the choice of notes: G, Bb, C, D, F (G minor pent), and F, G, A, C, D (FMajor Pent). That’s not to mention the inclusion of the B note when playing over the G chord, as well as G Major Pent (G, A, B, D, E). So, the total notes you could use over this solo section would be: G, A, Bb, B, C, D, E, F. Try ‘em all out, and listen carefully to find which ones sound best over which chords. — Mike C. "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." –Friedrich Nietzsche

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The sorta wah guitar sliding in the round in the back plays mostly in > G major.  Think he may include the odd notes in f-major, not too sure, > played it a couple of times, but not that overly bothered. > Sorry, if is of no intrest to anyone! > Jon

Response:

Seriously. I was just joking. Do you know why they need three guitar players in that band? Did you ever think about that? I used to think about it a lot. I used to think about a lot of crazy things a lot. But now I know. One to play rhythm. One to play lead. One to take a break. It’s like hockey. You can’t have everybody pounding it at the same time. Because then they all get too tired. Seriously. I was just joking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s a G minor pentatonic wank out. > It’s a good rhythm guitar workout to play along doing only rhythm for the 10 > minutes or so of the solo break.

Response:

Somebody has to do it! I got the chords from http://www.8ung.at/southernrock/freebird.txt I hope they’re right! chords are G    D/F#         Em If I leave here tomorrow F         C              D Would you still remember me? D          D/F#         Em For I must be traveling on now        F                C                  D ‘Cause there’s too many places I’ve got to see (Solo) G / Bb  / C  / C  / from http://www.8ung.at/southernrock/freebird.txt Its not clear cut. G Em Cmaj are all chords of G major. Also there is only 1 sharp and chords seem to revolve around G, also its a happy sounding song so it cant be any of the minor modes. so minor and major pentatonics in g should work fine as  Frank Carr suggested, I would keep more to major but add a little minor in certain areas But the F chord is intresting and it doesnt fit G major. However, it fits G mixolydian and that should sound pretty nice becuase mixolydian is a v. common scale use in this sort of music and it has a happy scale.  But be careful G mixolydian has a D minor in it not a D major, as in the music, therefore on that D it would be a good idea switching back to g major. Also, the F – C bit is intresting, mixolydian would work, but also F major would fit in and give it a slight quirky edge which could sound good. The Bb’s intresting in the solo (not in g major), could suggest G minor (however the c’s are major) so i’m gussing its still based on G, but they borrowed that chord from G minor to milk the solo a bit – i.e. G minor pentatonic there would sound great, but resolve it to G major when u hit the c’s is probably a good idea). I would really appreciate some feedback on this because this is what I’m trying to learn.  Finding a song, digesting chords and picking out scales to fit a well rounded solo over and learning how to milk certain parts.  Theory is all well and good, but to produce a good song often the key centres modulate. I dont know all the chords etc, but that stacking traids bit I said before basically produces tables of all chords or all modes, well worth working through, so I used that. Evil, I’m gonna have to download this song and try it now! – Which isnt helping my revision at the mo! Jon.

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Response:

Sorry, guys. I couldn’t resist. I thought it was funny. If anybody answers this question, I say we take him out behind the barn and shoot him. Just kidding.

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Awwww see…. I thought that was your first song. hehe Sheli

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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The key of….O…. as in… OH PLEASE NO! sheli

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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It’s a G minor pentatonic wank out. It’s a good rhythm guitar workout to play along doing only rhythm for the 10 minutes or so of the solo break.

Response:

Sorry, Frank, but G minor pentatonic is NOT a KEY! Oh never mind. Come along with me. Let’s go back behind the barn… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s a G minor pentatonic wank out. > It’s a good rhythm guitar workout to play along doing only rhythm for the 10 > minutes or so of the solo break.

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