Exercise R Us

Question:

The dog doesn’t always make it.  It’s a > very painful physiological state to be in.  And you do this > DELIBERATELY!  For the apparent purpose of plain ol’ training!

    Not only does he admit to causing this, he PREACHES it and BRAGS about it, and is damned PROUD of it !!     Sicker than anyone I know. MB

Response:

>     See just how violent Jer gets if you disagree with him, he’ll > advise you > to commit suicide. > That’s only for a couple of people that enjoy hurting, shockin, and > HANGING dogs to REHABILITATE THEM.

    Oh REALLY?? Show me the post that Lois E. advocated or even said she did this??? You did issue a suicide note to her. > You won’t find ANY unethical or immoral advice about dog training in > my posts. You misquote and mislead people… That doesn’t matter, > because PEOPLE are NOT STUPID…

    You’re so *very* right there Jer. They aren’t. And it seems all of us give them that credit, so we advise them going to www.dejanews.com on their very own to see for themselves ALL of your nasty posts, by your own words. Lots of them have, they’ve e-mailed me to tell me how sick and weird they all think you are. From your very own posts !! Hahahahahahahaha     Where the hell do you think the quotes we have now came from? Are you going to LIE and say you NEVER posted such things? We can PROVE it, Jer, yup show headers and all, or even better yet, point them to the page with the post that you yourself, posted it on. So, see there’s ABSOLUTELY no way we could possibly misquote or mislead them, it’s all in black and white for all to see, ARF ARF ARF     You really are stooopid. You got caught with yer pants down and are now throwing temper tantrums, poor widdle jer. Hehehehehehehe They see right through you and your > vicious pals you are trying to defend, notably cindy moore,who uses > the exact same crap AND WORSE, as follows:

    The exact same "CRAP" as what ??? You’re gonna trip yourself up here again, jer, be careful.     Every new person that has joined in the past few weeks has seen exactly who the fool is. You ought to see my private e-mail. They are all writing me and laughing their butts off at you !!     And *I* can prove that, by reposting them headers and all, no touch ups. But don’t expect me to do that, until you answer the QUESTION jer. < ARF ARF ARF> >>> I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes.

    I don’t either.     But YOU spike temps of 106, in the Florida heat, causing diarrhea and virtually killing dogs. If I had the choice of my much BELOVED Rudy to go thru one or the other?? He’d be getting his toes, ears, paws, and eyes pinched. Virtually ANYTHING rather than let YOU near him. <ARF ARF ARF>     You’re losin it jer, really really losin it here. You are the laughing stock of RPDB, have been for over a year, but are really performing well the past few days !! Thanks !! We’re all enjoying you squirm !! Heheheheheheh MaryBeth

Response:

> Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Salvor Hardin >     Very apropos for you to quote this, Jer. <G> (Tho I’m guessing it won’t > win you any new customers. <G>) >     See just how violent Jer gets if you disagree with him, he’ll advise you > to commit suicide.

That’s only for a couple of people that enjoy hurting, shockin, and HANGING dogs to REHABILITATE THEM. >     Then, not for the faint of heart, look at what he does to dogs, all in > the name of "Purely Positive Training" <BARF>:

You won’t find ANY unethical or immoral advice about dog training in my posts. You misquote and mislead people… That doesn’t matter, because PEOPLE are NOT STUPID… They see right through you and your vicious pals you are trying to defend, notably cindy moore,who uses the exact same crap AND WORSE, as follows: >> I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Isn’t that YOUR OWN WORDS??? But YOU don’t DO > THAT???

People, this is HOWE consistency works, and most particularly well with dogs, because here, the same methods are being used to INFLUENCE YOU, and YOU certainly are more intellectually capable of solving problems and have greater critical thinking skills than your dogs…, and these methods work on YOU> > That article, reprinted from The Retriever Journal, is > the words of my husband John and myself.

Meaning "We’ll share the credit, making it more credible??? Or we’ll share the blame, to mitigate our own individual responsibility and guilt…" YOU decide, it’s not my business where the blame falls. > For the benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses > not to read the article, there is NO mention in it of "twisting > ears,"

From the text">>>" ">>>Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.>>> "but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch>>> You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb;>>> even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that>>> Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.>>> Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear.>>> the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in>>>" Right… Didn’t lyingfrostydahly just deny all of that? There’s more… That was just a little about ear pinching, and no there was NO MENTION of twisting ears… cindy moore has all that information for you… But does it really matter, the semantics of whether we’re twisting or pinching or slapping or hitting??? These are the subtle differences between being an expert dog trainer and some morally bankrupt vicious rotten abusive cretin that goes to jail for abusing dogs…  But don’t lose interest now, there’s more… > NO mention whatsoever of dogs’ toes in any context, > and NO mention of "beating" dogs.

Right, lyingfrostydahly: ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply.>>> With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,>>>" Wouldn’t you think that was despicable enough even just writing that, let alone risk suffering the embarrassment of not only having that attributed to yourself, but in fact denying your best work and PROVING YOURSELF A SHAMELESS LIAR AND ADVOCATE OF DOG ABUSER??? But it goes on…  >>> chuck (for the uninitiated, "chuck" means strike) the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying  "No!">>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!">>>  use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear and place the dummy in its mouth. If it doesn’t make rapid progress, you can increase the pressure by requiring it to pick up the dropped dummy (stay on the ear until it does).>>> (perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it).>>> pinch its ear and say, "fetch,">>> Here we have consistency and a plea for reason, directly in contradiction to the blackman and white facts signed and published by our expert trainer…  Accordingly, the consistency of constant repetitions of your requests for understanding and compliance from your dogs, dictates that YOU WILL GET IT, so long as you are consistent and keep repeating the exact same scenario, no matter what… Including and especially when you calculatedly and intentionally deny the truth and make your requests seem reasonable. > In our training we do not do any of these things, nor do we > advocate them to others.

"Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it. This is HOWE they get that happy excited working attitude that they all talk about… That’s their criteria for making their dogs happy, willing team mates… > Jerry Howe has once again demonstrated his lack of > reading comprehension.

Right. Perhaps that’s because I get a little disturbed with all of the abuse, and I begin reading more into it than what the author intended???… "Slip an empty shotshell into your pocket before the next session. As always, begin with some review. Then sit the dog. Take hold of its buckle collar and ear as follows. Slide the last three fingers of your left hand towards the dog’s head under the collar, and curl them over the collar to grasp it firmly. With your thumb and index finger, pull the dog’s left ear back over the collar (inside up) and hold it there gently. The "ear pinch" is administered by pressing with your thumbnail at the boundary between hair and bare skin (don’t pinch yet). Depending on the size and strength of your hands, you may want to press against the collar or against your index finger.>>>You want it to get the idea that the ear-pinch means,>>> If the dog clenches its mouth shut, you may be in for another extended session. Keep pinching and press the dummy harder against the dog’s lips. Repeat "fetch." Again, keep your voice calm. If several minutes pass and>>> You want the dog to think that it is "beating the pinch" Any time it is slow, pinch!>>> As mentioned previously, it is important not to establish a pattern of struggling with the dog physically. If you cannot physically restrain the dog, increasing the pressure may do the trick.>>> Be sure you are in position with your hold on collar and ear every time you give the command," Here’s a couple MORE quotes from the links above, from our own respected Amy Dahl’s published text: "it transfers much of the momentum-producing power of the ear pinch to the stick, thus providing a basis for force-on-back. you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can avoid the stick. >>>  As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you are finished>>> This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome.we do not recommend that inexperienced trainers use this heavy-handed approach. > — > Amy Frost Dahl   Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > Pinehurst, NC 28370

Lets move on, and get this past us. This should be totally ignored, and everyone can forget all about it, like it doesn’t happen… That’s what these people are trying to get you to believe, and that’s what all the commotion is about… Please do not quote my messages in their entirety, because it may be upsetting to others with weak stomachs and human conscience… ">>>and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.>>>" I don’t think so… Bye, bye, lyingfrostydahly!!!

Response:

> Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Salvor Hardin

    Very apropos for you to quote this, Jer. <G> (Tho I’m guessing it won’t win you any new customers. <G>)     See just how violent Jer gets if you disagree with him, he’ll advise you to commit suicide.     Then, not for the faint of heart, look at what he does to dogs, all in the name of "Purely Positive Training" <BARF>: >> "If the dog is trained properly, he does not think of his >> protection >> training as fun and games at the big dog park. During a protection >> class, the dogs temperature should go up to 106 and he should have >> loose stools within two or three minutes of beginning the lesson."

Cindy: > Working a dog to that point deliberately would be absolutely >> abusive. jerry: >RIGHT. IT TAKES >>>>>>>>TWO MINUTES<<<<<<< TO DO THAT…

Cindy: >> Words fail me at the concept.  The dog can *die* rather horribly >> this way. jerry: >That’s Howe much YOU know. We’re talking >>>>>>two minutes of

"abuse."<<<<<<<<<< You may also want to add on how unless the dog is VERY carefully cooled down in a controlled manner,i.e. don’t drop the body temp too low (below 103 F) too quickly DIC often happens.  DIC is where the blood suddenly refuses to clot properly and the animal bleeds out.  Sometimes known as "Dead in Cage." Beth Jerry Howe 2-9-2000 > Actually, they are accustomed to expect the unexpected from me… Did > you FORGET the rest of the instructions? Here, let me help…Check > the chamber, unlock the safety, put the muzzle of the shotgun in your > mouth and suck hard, grasping the barrel firmly with both hands, and > place your big toe into the trigger guard, and GENTLY push… Don’t > worry about the noise, do your arithmatic, physics will protect you > from hearing the sound. That’s the best part, go ahead, you won’t > hear a thing at all…

> "No, I don’t like dogs. I don’t like people, either. Dogs are only > animals, put there for us to use in any fashion we see fit." J. Howe > May 22, 1999

10/24/1999 "Before you get me wrong, I’ve got to tell you, I’ve used them myself. Owned several different brands, too. If I ever need one, I’ll let you know. They can be useful when all else fails, for poison proofing, and snake proofing, where the disease is worse than the cure. I like that. But not too much. Not till I’ve worked on training the problem….That I like. You know how popular I am. I need my dogs poison proofed. So do my students. It’s not that hard, and it doesn’t usually take long. But, some dogs can be harder than others to train, especially if they’ve been trained with food bribes. If there’s a risk of poisoning, it might help to use the collar to poison proof them." Jerry Howe

Response:

Competent dog trainers do not shock and choke dogs. J>>>

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary > use and would like  feedback. > The problem you describe – failure to recall when very attractive > distractions are present – is common and an electronic collar can > help.  However, it is really important to learn how to use this, or > any other tool, properly.  Good electronic collars are expensive. > Rather than just spending that money and trying to use it out of > the box, you’d be better off going to an experienced trainer for > help with this problem.  If the trainer feels the use of the collar > is warranted, he/she will be able to show you how to use it properly > and may even be able to rent you a collar for this purpose. > Lynn K.

Response:

> Competent dog trainers do not shock and choke dogs. J>>>

Competent dog trainers to not cause dogs to run dangerously high fevers and get diarrhea. –Terri — At least, I have integrity, and admission of my insanity, is proof of my credibility. –Jerry "Two Minutes of Abuse" Howe 11/4/99   http://www.sound.net/~twillis/Harlan/concerns.html Before you buy.

Response:

"Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and judge things by reason’s way, not by popular say." Montaigne Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Salvor Hardin If you cannot convince them, confuse them. H.S. Truman. ;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

Response:

Anyone know how to cure dog hiccups? Bear got them one other time and they finally went away after a day and a half on their own. But, I hate to see him heaving away for another day straight if I can help it. Thanks! Melissa

Response:

>I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary >use and would like  feedback.

One thing that I didn’t notice in your post was any description of how (or if) you have taught this dog to come when called. It seems to me that teaching a very reliable recall would serve your purposes better than trying to "boundary train" Cris Waller Fast Fourward Flyball Team www.flyball.com/fastfourward/index.html Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html

Response:

Don’t waste your money – if a sound is all you need, find one that’s free. Try whistle training. If pain is what you want, forget it, you’ll end up with a very sick doggie. Shock collars are only useful in extremely special circumstances and NEVER those that create painful sensations!!! If anyone tells you they don’t hurt – ignore them – they’re incompetent and dishonest. Trying them on your wrist of neck shows no comparison whatsoever – just a salesline – the static from the fur on dogs causes the pain to them 10 fold (at least)- Also they are not safe – many many dogs have been seriously damaged and killed by these devices. Training with them shows laziness, ignorance and lack of skill. wolfdog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary > use and would like  feedback. > I live in a new city with a friendly 2 year old chow (Odin) who loves to > play with the other dogs in the park – several of us who take our dogs > out to romp and play each night in the same part of the park and all the > other dogs run around but  stay nearby.  For the first few weeks, I kept > Odin on a long retractable leash, because when he is of a mind to "jog > off", there is no stopping him.  However, the night before last the dogs > were staying in a tight pack and running together so I experimented and > let him play free, he was fine for a short bit, then wandered off. > Until I find another solution, he’s going to remained leashed while the > other dogs play.  It’s not worth the risk. > Odin is quite aware of barriers – I was able to train him to stay out of > certain areas of the house based on voice commands (a single firm "OUT" > suffices), but, in the park, even 20 yards away, eliminates my > effectiveness with him.  He’s extremely well behaved in other scenarios, > but, when he’s out with the other dogs, having fun and socializing > (which I find important), I lose my effectiveness with him because I > cannot enforce my commands. > However (and this is where I hope I don’t get a lot of angry > responses),  I am considering going to the park with him during a quiet > time without the distractions from other dogs, walking the perimeter of > the OK area with a retractable leash and a shock collar (I don’t have > one, but, am considering one for this purpose), and gradually > introducing him to what I consider to be the "safe zone". > * As he moves to the perimeter, get his attention  with a tone on the > collar, so that he comes to recognize that this beep means "perimeter > warning" > ** If the tone does not work, use a firm and loud "STOP", then "COME" > *** If he still does not comply, remind him with a gentle shock to > "STOP", then "COME" and when he comes, lavish him with his usual love > and praise. > The intent, is with consistent coaching, for him to learn the following: > 1)  Perimeter of the safe zone in this park, so he knows he can play but > must stay in the "safe area"  - if we go to another park, it will be > another learning process – hopefully, he will know that "STOP" means > STOP > 2)  That he will respond to a audio warning when he gets close to the > perimeter > 3)  That if he does not respond to the tone warning and a subsequent > verbal "STOP",  there will be a correction > 4)  And for other purposes, that "STOP" means STOP (a word that will > only be used rarely and for the specific purpose of him stopping – when > his safety is an issue) > This isn’t meant to eliminate my responsibility.  I do maintain that > owners must continually watch and monitor their dogs, but, the intent is > for him to be able to run more freely, play (and not get tangled in his > leash while wrestling), know there is a safe zone, and that the command > "STOP" cannot be ignored without consequences.  Aside from this, his > behavior is great, he’s loved and pampered, but, I am at wits end on how > to extend his sense of freedom within safe boundaries and be able to > enforce it.  The best of days will be when he can romp for half an hour, > stay in the safe zone and never hear a beep or a "STOP" because he knows > his barriers.  This isn’t meant to be an overnight solution, it will > take consistency and effort, but, his safety is the first consideration. > Any helpful feedback  would be greatly appreciated.

– Ignorance is really no excuse in the eyes of the abused. Before you buy.

Response:

Sandra, Good luck with whatever you use; I can’t speak about shock collars because I never used one. But I was wondering — has Odin been with you since he was a pup? Or did you get him pretty recently? If the latter, you might wind up with the problem I have: I "found" my little hound Huck when he was running free in the woods. He’d been hanging around the state park cabins for two weeks or so, mooching food, but none of the state park folks could catch him. (He followed me into my cabin, and wouldn’t leave for the four days following, so you could say he found me.) Anyway, by the time I got him, he pretty well knew what worked and what didn’t. He knows quite well when he’s on a leash and when he’s not. So when he’s not, he simply won’t come. He’ll dance around merrily, just out of reach, laughing at me, but then run off a bit further if I take a step. He comes home when he’s hungry, but that’s not always before the dog warden finds him. The result is that he has no freedom. I simply can’t let him off a leash. If you find a way to deal with Odin that might work for Huck, please let me know. I would simply LOVE to let him run; there’s nothing he enjoys more. Heather Angus

Response:

[...] >Good luck with whatever you use; I can’t speak about shock collars because I >never used one.

[...] Words of wisdom. ;>) — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman For everything you’ve ever wanted to know about Jerry Howe and other trolls and scumbags, go here: http://www.i1.net/~dogman/trolls.html Nicholas Regush/ABC News column:Chronic Parasite Syndrome? Tiny Worms May Explain Mysterious Disease http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/secondopinion/secondopinio… "Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers."   Bernhard Haisch

Response:

> >I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary >use and would like  feedback. > One thing that I didn’t notice in your post was any description of how > (or if) you have taught this dog to come when called. It seems to me > that teaching a very reliable recall would serve your purposes better > than trying to "boundary train".

A recall will also be more easily transferred to another location, where your dog doesn’t know the boundaries. I used an electronic collar to reinforce my dog’s recall (which was speedy and enthusiastic in the absence of distractions.)  One thing I try to avoid is having to zap him when he’s close to another dog – I don’t want him associating the negative stimulus with the presence of other dogs.  However, his recall has improved enough that he’ll turn on a dime as he’s running up to a dog I don’t want him to approach.  As you’re learning, you’ll want to start with recalls that involve fewer distractions, especially other dogs. I have also used the e-collar to reinforce a stay command when Oscar is walking off-leash (my progression is ‘hold on’ so that he slows down, ‘wait’ so that he’ll stop for a bit, and ’stay’, which means don’t take another step.)  It’s handy to have both the recall and the stay at your disposal. The library of articles at http://www.dobbsdogs.com has a lot of information about how to use an electronic collar to teach such things as recalls and stays.   Kristine & Oscar

Response:

> I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary > use and would like  feedback.

The problem you describe – failure to recall when very attractive distractions are present – is common and an electronic collar can help.  However, it is really important to learn how to use this, or any other tool, properly.  Good electronic collars are expensive. Rather than just spending that money and trying to use it out of the box, you’d be better off going to an experienced trainer for help with this problem.  If the trainer feels the use of the collar is warranted, he/she will be able to show you how to use it properly and may even be able to rent you a collar for this purpose. Lynn K.

Response:

Folks:  Thanks for all of your helpful responses and follow ups, posts and emails.  I’m not set on the decision of whether to use the collar or not; but, my decision at this point is to consult with a trainer who can help advise on this problem and find the best solution for this situation and this very stubborn dog.  I’ve also gotten some good links on techniques around using collars.  I figured this group would be a good place to start on collecting information and ideas and have gotten a wealth of information. Most of the folks here seem like conscientious dog owners who want the best for their dogs. Again, thank you for all of the help.  Always better to make a decision with more information than to make a mistake and try to seek info afterwards. Best Regards! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary > use and would like  feedback. > I live in a new city with a friendly 2 year old chow (Odin) who loves to > play with the other dogs in the park – several of us who take our dogs > out to romp and play each night in the same part of the park and all the > other dogs run around but  stay nearby.  For the first few weeks, I kept > Odin on a long retractable leash, because when he is of a mind to "jog > off", there is no stopping him.  However, the night before last the dogs > were staying in a tight pack and running together so I experimented and > let him play free, he was fine for a short bit, then wandered off. > Until I find another solution, he’s going to remained leashed while the > other dogs play.  It’s not worth the risk. > Odin is quite aware of barriers – I was able to train him to stay out of > certain areas of the house based on voice commands (a single firm "OUT" > suffices), but, in the park, even 20 yards away, eliminates my > effectiveness with him.  He’s extremely well behaved in other scenarios, > but, when he’s out with the other dogs, having fun and socializing > (which I find important), I lose my effectiveness with him because I > cannot enforce my commands. > However (and this is where I hope I don’t get a lot of angry > responses),  I am considering going to the park with him during a quiet > time without the distractions from other dogs, walking the perimeter of > the OK area with a retractable leash and a shock collar (I don’t have > one, but, am considering one for this purpose), and gradually > introducing him to what I consider to be the "safe zone". > * As he moves to the perimeter, get his attention  with a tone on the > collar, so that he comes to recognize that this beep means "perimeter > warning" > ** If the tone does not work, use a firm and loud "STOP", then "COME" > *** If he still does not comply, remind him with a gentle shock to > "STOP", then "COME" and when he comes, lavish him with his usual love > and praise. > The intent, is with consistent coaching, for him to learn the following: > 1)  Perimeter of the safe zone in this park, so he knows he can play but > must stay in the "safe area"  - if we go to another park, it will be > another learning process – hopefully, he will know that "STOP" means > STOP > 2)  That he will respond to a audio warning when he gets close to the > perimeter > 3)  That if he does not respond to the tone warning and a subsequent > verbal "STOP",  there will be a correction > 4)  And for other purposes, that "STOP" means STOP (a word that will > only be used rarely and for the specific purpose of him stopping – when > his safety is an issue) > This isn’t meant to eliminate my responsibility.  I do maintain that > owners must continually watch and monitor their dogs, but, the intent is > for him to be able to run more freely, play (and not get tangled in his > leash while wrestling), know there is a safe zone, and that the command > "STOP" cannot be ignored without consequences.  Aside from this, his > behavior is great, he’s loved and pampered, but, I am at wits end on how > to extend his sense of freedom within safe boundaries and be able to > enforce it.  The best of days will be when he can romp for half an hour, > stay in the safe zone and never hear a beep or a "STOP" because he knows > his barriers.  This isn’t meant to be an overnight solution, it will > take consistency and effort, but, his safety is the first consideration. > Any helpful feedback  would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

I’m considering using a shock collar for a VERY specific and temporary use and would like  feedback. I live in a new city with a friendly 2 year old chow (Odin) who loves to play with the other dogs in the park – several of us who take our dogs out to romp and play each night in the same part of the park and all the other dogs run around but  stay nearby.  For the first few weeks, I kept Odin on a long retractable leash, because when he is of a mind to "jog off", there is no stopping him.  However, the night before last the dogs were staying in a tight pack and running together so I experimented and let him play free, he was fine for a short bit, then wandered off. Until I find another solution, he’s going to remained leashed while the other dogs play.  It’s not worth the risk. Odin is quite aware of barriers – I was able to train him to stay out of certain areas of the house based on voice commands (a single firm "OUT" suffices), but, in the park, even 20 yards away, eliminates my effectiveness with him.  He’s extremely well behaved in other scenarios, but, when he’s out with the other dogs, having fun and socializing (which I find important), I lose my effectiveness with him because I cannot enforce my commands. However (and this is where I hope I don’t get a lot of angry responses),  I am considering going to the park with him during a quiet time without the distractions from other dogs, walking the perimeter of the OK area with a retractable leash and a shock collar (I don’t have one, but, am considering one for this purpose), and gradually introducing him to what I consider to be the "safe zone". * As he moves to the perimeter, get his attention  with a tone on the collar, so that he comes to recognize that this beep means "perimeter warning" ** If the tone does not work, use a firm and loud "STOP", then "COME" *** If he still does not comply, remind him with a gentle shock to "STOP", then "COME" and when he comes, lavish him with his usual love and praise. The intent, is with consistent coaching, for him to learn the following: 1)  Perimeter of the safe zone in this park, so he knows he can play but must stay in the "safe area"  - if we go to another park, it will be another learning process – hopefully, he will know that "STOP" means STOP 2)  That he will respond to a audio warning when he gets close to the perimeter 3)  That if he does not respond to the tone warning and a subsequent verbal "STOP",  there will be a correction 4)  And for other purposes, that "STOP" means STOP (a word that will only be used rarely and for the specific purpose of him stopping – when his safety is an issue) This isn’t meant to eliminate my responsibility.  I do maintain that owners must continually watch and monitor their dogs, but, the intent is for him to be able to run more freely, play (and not get tangled in his leash while wrestling), know there is a safe zone, and that the command "STOP" cannot be ignored without consequences.  Aside from this, his behavior is great, he’s loved and pampered, but, I am at wits end on how to extend his sense of freedom within safe boundaries and be able to enforce it.  The best of days will be when he can romp for half an hour, stay in the safe zone and never hear a beep or a "STOP" because he knows his barriers.  This isn’t meant to be an overnight solution, it will take consistency and effort, but, his safety is the first consideration. Any helpful feedback  would be greatly appreciated.

Response: