Exercise R Us

Question:

Not David inquiring, but it’s an easy thing to mistake since his name is on the post and mine is just at the end of the query. Thank you for your resonse. I would be inclined to respond more charitably it had it not followed your reply to Lynn asking about the pinching of ears etc. This, sir, had no place in a response thread to my inquiry. If you have a problem with Lynn, then take it to a new thread. I posted to recieve sincere answers, not to continue this ongoing diatribe which infiltrates every thread. Your method of sound distraction was the only thing that did work with one of my other males whom I swear suffered from ADD. I have never had to use this method with the male in this question because he is naturally very attentive and focused. Since it’s a new variation in his usual training, it will definitely get his attention. Thank you for your input. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello David, > Try using sound distraction and praise to distract him every > time he thinks about shying. You can clap your hands or snap > your fingers or use ANY brief, non physical distraction, f > ollowed immediately by exuberant, prolonged, non physical, > praise. > Using this technique is the easiest and fastest way to break > any > behavior. There are a number of things that have to be > considered when beginning this approach. A few preliminary > exercises in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual > available at: http://www.doggydoright.com will explain the > basic > handling techniques you should learn. Using them will insure > that the > method will work to a high degree of proficiency. > The problem is that not many people understand how to use the > sound distraction and praise techniques correctly, and do not > know HOWE to use the come command as a default, if the > sound does not work on occasion. When you are told these > methods have been tried and didn’t work, rest assured > that whomever "tried" it and for whom it did not work, did not > "try" doing it correctly. If the technique does not work, the > come > command is to be used as a default, and a new attempt at > addressing the problem can begin. > I’ve heard a couple of the "experts" here saying they’ve tried > it, > and it didn’t work for them, or it made their dog nervous. > Those > are usually the experts that choke and shock dogs, and are > trying to FORCE the dog using sound instead of choking or > shocking…Many of them have never read the techniques > presented here, and are using inappropriate or incorrect > methods. There are some people that do not follow directions > and get lousy results, and there are people that do not allow > the > technique adequate repetition to be successful. Those problems > may occur if the technique is not done precisely. There is no > excuse that these techniques will not work if done correctly, t > they are a scientific fact. > Any sound will suffice. Ideally, the sound would be the same > each time, but that is not always possible. A single clap of > the > hands or snap of the fingers would do, if it were followed by > praise, and as long as it does not happen twice in succession > from the same point of origin. That’s why several penny cans > are required. You cannot use the same can for more than two > occasions in succession. The sound must always be > accompanied with praise. The sound must never occur from the > same point of origin twice in succession. The sound must be > brief. Any UNINTENTIONAL sounding should be avoided and > PRAISED if it occurs. That will let the dog know it was not > intended for them. When more than one dog is present when > using sound distractions and praise techniques, all dogs p > resent > must receive praise with direct eye contact so they will > UNDERSTAND they were not being addressed. The praise must > continue constantly for several seconds following any sound > cue to allow the thought process to be completed. The behavior > must be allowed or made to be repeated and interrupted using > sound and praise until the behavior is broken. And most > importantly, the moment the dog thinks of resuming the > behavior, you must praise him. > That’s right. When the dog thinks about resuming the behavior, > if > you praise him at that exact moment, the previous corrections > will be restimulated in the dogs mind, and the behavior will be > extinguished. > That seems to be the real hard part for the trainers here to > understand. They want to make it happen, and they interfere > with the dog’s thought process. The dog will learn through the > process of elimination of alternative actions or behaviors. It > takes a few minutes, and the behavior is eliminated, rather > than > repressed and seething to resume, as is the case with physical > or verbal corrections, confrontation, or punishment "techn > iques." > The trainer will confound his efforts when they insist on > telling > the dog "NO!," instead of relying on the conditioning that has > been established. Shouting at the dog will often trigger the > opposite of the desired effect. What further complicates the > process for the trainer, is that they break the conditioning > when > they respond with a different corrective technique out of a > reflexive reaction of their own, such as screaming "No!," or > reaching out to grab the dog and physically correcting the dog > for a further instance of malbehavior, rather than taking the > moment to think about the best way to address the problem, and > if necessary search for a can and follow through with the > appropriate sound and praise. > The process must be carried out using an alternate source of > sound for the next interruption. An associate could be enlisted > and instructed to clap their hands on signal to accomplish the > desired sound interruption. We want the dog to exhaust all of > the alternative malbehaviors he can pull out of his bag of > tricks, > in order for us to extinguish them EACH in turn. > Any time we interact in a behavior by telling the dog no, or > physically restrain or correct him, we are becoming part of the > behavior, either as a player or competitor in the dogs mis > chief. > Using sound as a distraction must always be followed by > immediate, prolonged, non physical praise. Interrupting a > behavior with sound should never be associated with us, as in > voicing no, or telling the dog to stop it. > The behavior should NOT be distracted with any PHYSICAL > INTERVENTION. We want the behavior to begin again, so that > we may have another opportunity to properly address the > behavior with another sound and praise. > That way, we can completely end a problem while the dog is > THINKING about it, and we are prepared to address the issue > before it becomes out of control. The sound must never occur > twice in a row from the same direction. > In other words, if you snapped your fingers in front of the dog > to > stop him from chewing on your shoelace, you’d praise him for > five to fifteen seconds immediately upon snapping your fingers. > The behavior will hopefully resume, and the next attempt at > chewing the shoelace, the sound of the snap of your fingers > must come from behind the dog, or even from a friend assisting > from across the room, from a soda can with a few pennies in it, > or any source of sound (except our voice!), followed by > prolonged non physical praise, until the dog is no longer > thinking > about the behavior or resumes it. > The third interruption of the behavior usually gets the message > across, and the dog will think about the behavior for just a > moment before engaging in it once again for the fourth and last > time… That split second thinking about engaging in the b > ehavior > requires praise. Do not react to it with a challenge of sh > outing > no, or physically removing the temptation. > That moment of thinking about resuming the behavior and the > praise it earns him, will validate the prior interruptions of > that > behavior.The dog then needs to test it out, to be sure that the > same behavior will be dealt with in exactly the same manner. > They will usually make a fourth attempt at the behavior, and if > you follow through appropriately, he will learn not to do that > behavior anymore. But only on the one shoelace! He must take > that behavior to other instances to fully cease the desire for > the > behavior. > The behavior will not be completely broken until he has taken > the > process of elimination to the second, third, and fourth > opportunity to explore that behavior. And, even at that, you > may > need to repeat the process in four completely different places. > That means that the worst behavior may need up to sixty-four > properly timed interruptions and praise. Usually it happens > much > quicker than that. > Breaking a behavior in this manner reduces stress, takes us out > of the position of negative enforcer or competitor or playmate, > and allows the dog to extinguish a behavior because he simply > doesn’t get any satisfaction from it. The other secret is > giving > the dog a payoff for every time they look at you. Each time you > notice eye contact from your dog, you must praise him verbally, > to keep him always thinking of you and to prevent his idle mind > from doing the devils work. > You can get all the information you need to properly handle and > train > your dog using non force, non confrontational, scientific and > psychological behavior modification and conditioning techn > iques, from > the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at > http://www.doggydoright.com > BEWARE the warnings offered to you from our rpdb Gang Of Thugs > regarding my posts and the Wits’ End Dog Training Method m > anual. > You cannot trust your dog’s well being to people who tell you > to > killfile my advice… and tell you to punish, confine, and > confront your dog’s > behavior problems. Our Gang Of Thugs are easily identifiable by > their > warnings

… read more »

Response:

> Take my advice or leave it.

I will leave it since it is just the front for a scam job. If you were here to give advice jer you would not be ignoring the rules of this newsgroup by trying to sell everyone your $100 electronic training device. Even worse, you offer a "free Training Manual" but when anyone takes the link they end up at your sales pitch for the aforementioned gizmo. THREE times in your last post alone! It is a classic "bait & switch" scam. If you were an honest person you would post a genuine link to the free training manual download page. But you aren’t so you don’t. EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

Liar. You are a proven liar and dog abuser… You recently told someone over on the rescue list to take a new rescued dog and leave the lead on him in the crate so they can jerk and choke him to resolve his crate anxiety… You can’t understand NOT hurting dogs to train them. You can’t understand NOT switching and flanking dogs… You HURT dogs to train them. You’ve got NO BUSINESS working with any ”rescue” dogs looking for HELP. Jerry. j;~}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would be inclined to respond more charitably it had it not > followed your reply to Lynn asking about the pinching of ears etc. This, > sir, had no place in a response thread to my inquiry. > Kathy, I recommend the use of a killfile if you would prefer not to > read things posted by Mr. Howe, or anyone else.  It’s been almost a > year since I last saw any posts by him and it has made the newsgroup > far more enjoyable for me. > Lynn K.

Response:

> The phrase he was taught was "let me see" to examine his bite, jaws closed > and flews drawn upwards. I use "open up" when I check and/or brush his > teeth.

Great!  I don’t think you’re going to have any problem at all getting him over his bad experience if you drop back to the beginning stages you used in teaching him.  The good associations he has with that should quickly supercede his recent bad experience. Lynn K.

Response:

> I would be inclined to respond more charitably it had it not > followed your reply to Lynn asking about the pinching of ears etc. This, > sir, had no place in a response thread to my inquiry.

Kathy, I recommend the use of a killfile if you would prefer not to read things posted by Mr. Howe, or anyone else.  It’s been almost a year since I last saw any posts by him and it has made the newsgroup far more enjoyable for me. Lynn K.

Response:

Take my advice or leave it. When I’m croaking some vile dog abuser here, either stand up for what’s RIGHT, or join the Conga line and boogaloo on outta here. We don’t need DOG LOVERS like YOU telling ME not to point out the viciousness of our ”ADVISORS” here… Sorry to fry your butt this morning, but I don’t take condoning dog abuse LIGHTLY. Without people like you closing an eye to bums like lyinglynn and cindymoron HURTING dogs to train them, THEY wouldn’t be tolerated here any more… If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Jerry. j;~}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not David inquiring, but it’s an easy thing to mistake since his name is on > the post and mine is just at the end of the query. Thank you for your > resonse. I would be inclined to respond more charitably it had it not > followed your reply to Lynn asking about the pinching of ears etc. This, > sir, had no place in a response thread to my inquiry. If you have a problem > with Lynn, then take it to a new thread. I posted to recieve sincere > answers, not to continue this ongoing diatribe which infiltrates every > thread. Your method of sound distraction was the only thing that did work > with one of my other males whom I swear suffered from ADD. I have never had > to use this method with the male in this question because he is naturally > very attentive and focused. Since it’s a new variation in his usual > training, it will definitely get his attention. Thank you for your input. > Hello David, > Try using sound distraction and praise to distract him every > time he thinks about shying. You can clap your hands or snap > your fingers or use ANY brief, non physical distraction, f > ollowed immediately by exuberant, prolonged, non physical, > praise. > Using this technique is the easiest and fastest way to break > any > behavior. There are a number of things that have to be > considered when beginning this approach. A few preliminary > exercises in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual > available at: http://www.doggydoright.com will explain the > basic > handling techniques you should learn. Using them will insure > that the > method will work to a high degree of proficiency. > The problem is that not many people understand how to use the > sound distraction and praise techniques correctly, and do not > know HOWE to use the come command as a default, if the > sound does not work on occasion. When you are told these > methods have been tried and didn’t work, rest assured > that whomever "tried" it and for whom it did not work, did not > "try" doing it correctly. If the technique does not work, the > come > command is to be used as a default, and a new attempt at > addressing the problem can begin. > I’ve heard a couple of the "experts" here saying they’ve tried > it, > and it didn’t work for them, or it made their dog nervous. > Those > are usually the experts that choke and shock dogs, and are > trying to FORCE the dog using sound instead of choking or > shocking…Many of them have never read the techniques > presented here, and are using inappropriate or incorrect > methods. There are some people that do not follow directions > and get lousy results, and there are people that do not allow > the > technique adequate repetition to be successful. Those problems > may occur if the technique is not done precisely. There is no > excuse that these techniques will not work if done correctly, t > they are a scientific fact. > Any sound will suffice. Ideally, the sound would be the same > each time, but that is not always possible. A single clap of > the > hands or snap of the fingers would do, if it were followed by > praise, and as long as it does not happen twice in succession > from the same point of origin. That’s why several penny cans > are required. You cannot use the same can for more than two > occasions in succession. The sound must always be > accompanied with praise. The sound must never occur from the > same point of origin twice in succession. The sound must be > brief. Any UNINTENTIONAL sounding should be avoided and > PRAISED if it occurs. That will let the dog know it was not > intended for them. When more than one dog is present when > using sound distractions and praise techniques, all dogs p > resent > must receive praise with direct eye contact so they will > UNDERSTAND they were not being addressed. The praise must > continue constantly for several seconds following any sound > cue to allow the thought process to be completed. The behavior > must be allowed or made to be repeated and interrupted using > sound and praise until the behavior is broken. And most > importantly, the moment the dog thinks of resuming the > behavior, you must praise him. > That’s right. When the dog thinks about resuming the behavior, > if > you praise him at that exact moment, the previous corrections > will be restimulated in the dogs mind, and the behavior will be > extinguished. > That seems to be the real hard part for the trainers here to > understand. They want to make it happen, and they interfere > with the dog’s thought process. The dog will learn through the > process of elimination of alternative actions or behaviors. It > takes a few minutes, and the behavior is eliminated, rather > than > repressed and seething to resume, as is the case with physical > or verbal corrections, confrontation, or punishment "techn > iques." > The trainer will confound his efforts when they insist on > telling > the dog "NO!," instead of relying on the conditioning that has > been established. Shouting at the dog will often trigger the > opposite of the desired effect. What further complicates the > process for the trainer, is that they break the conditioning > when > they respond with a different corrective technique out of a > reflexive reaction of their own, such as screaming "No!," or > reaching out to grab the dog and physically correcting the dog > for a further instance of malbehavior, rather than taking the > moment to think about the best way to address the problem, and > if necessary search for a can and follow through with the > appropriate sound and praise. > The process must be carried out using an alternate source of > sound for the next interruption. An associate could be enlisted > and instructed to clap their hands on signal to accomplish the > desired sound interruption. We want the dog to exhaust all of > the alternative malbehaviors he can pull out of his bag of > tricks, > in order for us to extinguish them EACH in turn. > Any time we interact in a behavior by telling the dog no, or > physically restrain or correct him, we are becoming part of the > behavior, either as a player or competitor in the dogs mis > chief. > Using sound as a distraction must always be followed by > immediate, prolonged, non physical praise. Interrupting a > behavior with sound should never be associated with us, as in > voicing no, or telling the dog to stop it. > The behavior should NOT be distracted with any PHYSICAL > INTERVENTION. We want the behavior to begin again, so that > we may have another opportunity to properly address the > behavior with another sound and praise. > That way, we can completely end a problem while the dog is > THINKING about it, and we are prepared to address the issue > before it becomes out of control. The sound must never occur > twice in a row from the same direction. > In other words, if you snapped your fingers in front of the dog > to > stop him from chewing on your shoelace, you’d praise him for > five to fifteen seconds immediately upon snapping your fingers. > The behavior will hopefully resume, and the next attempt at > chewing the shoelace, the sound of the snap of your fingers > must come from behind the dog, or even from a friend assisting > from across the room, from a soda can with a few pennies in it, > or any source of sound (except our voice!), followed by > prolonged non physical praise, until the dog is no longer > thinking > about the behavior or resumes it. > The third interruption of the behavior usually gets the message > across, and the dog will think about the behavior for just a > moment before engaging in it once again for the fourth and last > time… That split second thinking about engaging in the b > ehavior > requires praise. Do not react to it with a challenge of sh > outing > no, or physically removing the temptation. > That moment of thinking about resuming the behavior and the > praise it earns him, will validate the prior interruptions of > that > behavior.The dog then needs to test it out, to be sure that the > same behavior will be dealt with in exactly the same manner. > They will usually make a fourth attempt at the behavior, and if > you follow through appropriately, he will learn not to do that > behavior anymore. But only on the one shoelace! He must take > that behavior to other instances to fully cease the desire for > the > behavior. > The behavior will not be completely broken until he has taken > the > process of elimination to the second, third, and fourth > opportunity to explore that behavior. And, even at that, you > may > need to repeat the process in four completely different places. > That means that the worst behavior may need up to sixty-four > properly timed interruptions and praise. Usually it happens > much > quicker than that. > Breaking a behavior in this manner reduces stress, takes us out > of the position of negative enforcer or competitor or

… read more »

Response:

The phrase he was taught was "let me see" to examine his bite, jaws closed and flews drawn upwards. I use "open up" when I check and/or brush his – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kathy, did you ever teach him "Open"?  If not, you probably need to > now.  Use your yummiest treats, and only give them when he opens up > wide.  Start without touching his muzzle at all – holding the treat > a little above his nose and dropping it in when he opens his mouth, > and marking that action with the command word.  I use "Jaws", but > "Open" is certainly more traditional > Only when he gets the idea should you move to touching him.  Start > by cupping your hand under his chin, with no pressure or fingers > gripping the sides of his mouth.  He should be willing to open his > mouth from that position.  Don’t move to any hand on the top or > pushing up his flews until he’s really comfortable.  Actually, having > him open that mouth up wide when your cradling his chin will go a > long way to preventing a reoccurrence.  Even the most hamfisted judge > sees no need to manhandle a dog who is voluntarily presenting a > wide open view of all teeth. > Lynn K.

Response:

> Pssst! > NOBODY BELIEVES YOU. > EVERYONE KNOWS YOU ARE A LIAR, A BEGGAR,  and A MENTAL CASE. > EVERYONE KNOWS YOU DEFEND HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN THEM. > EVERYONE KNOW YOU DEFEND  DOG ABUSERS. > Bye! Jerry. j;~}

More lies jer. YOU are the continual liar here. Want PROOF? You are lying when you claim I defend abusing animals. You are lying when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. You are lying when you claim to have thousands of happy customers. You CONSTANTLY LIE about your free WEDTM offer. You offer a free training manual but the link you post sends them to the sales pitch for your dubious $100 electronic training device. It is the classic sleazy "Bait & Switch" scam. (A purchaser of jerry’s $100 training device has posted a review at: Buyer Beware! You should try being honest jer. Stop using the bait & switch scam. Being honest is a better way to live. You should try it. You would be a much happier & better person. EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

He’s been trained to the phrase "let me see". His reward system has progressed to vigorous verbal praise – maybe it’s time to go back to the treats like we did when he was very young. He’s a major mooch-hound and the treat reward worked exceptionally well for him except he got the a point where he’d get stubborn if he wasn’t "treated" after completing an exercise, or he’d cut corners in the exercise to get to the treat. So we changed things around a bit and got more into the praise, play, toys, etc, til we reached a point where, as long as we make him feel like Einstein after he completes an exercise, he’s a charm to work with. He probably needs a lot more incentive for awhile. The judge’s response to my very terse query as to what the heck he was doing with my dog’s mouth was that "Pekes are known to be stubborn and they need a firm hand". Needless to say, he’s off my list of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree with Lynn – restart training and put it on cue – I happen to use the > words ‘teeth please’ – so the dog knows what will happen next. > You can also use the words ‘can I see the bite please’ and then the judge > will do the cueing for you > I find the cue plus the presentation of a nice bit of a treat  (you > gradually move to different varied reward schedules) does wonders for > getting a dog over bad things. Once the dog knows the cue – then you move to > a known ’stranger’ then onwards until the dog has totally forgotten the > idiot who did this. > Matches are good things to attend but remember the judges are practicing > too. > Also be aware in the breed ring some judges are *very* rough and its wise to > know ahead of time which entries to skip – your handler may be able to help > you with this information. > Nancy > Got a problem here. My male peke was shown to his Canadian championship > last > year. He was handled by a handler, but was trained by my husband and > myself > for walking on lead, and stacking – plus the basic doggy good manners and > basic commands. We also got him used to being examined on a table and > having > his bite examined by enlisting every friend and neighbour we could find so > that having this done by a complete stranger (ie the judge) would not be a > problem. Well, it paid off in spades and he had no troubles at all and > loved > all the attention in the ring. Well, this all changed last weekend when I > took him to a fun match to get him in the ring again to start preparing > for > a stateside trip to the shows next year. The person judging wrenched open > the dog’s mouth and handled his mouth so roughly that a tooth cut his lip. > Now, this took only seconds to happen before I removed the judge’s hands > from my dog – it took a good count of 10 not to remove the judge’s head > from > his body! So what do you think the problem is now – well, surprise, > surprise, he’s now shy of anyone, including hubby and I, around his mouth. > The vet had a wicked time trying to assess the damage to his lip – this > from > a dog who sat calmly during all his vet visits regardless of what was > being > done. We have to keep his lip clean and put ointment on it and it’s not > going well at all – he’s shying away, getting really stressed and fighting > all the way. I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat > it > and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again. Any tips, > ideas, thoughts? thanks …….Kathy J

Response:

I agree with Lynn – restart training and put it on cue – I happen to use the words ‘teeth please’ – so the dog knows what will happen next. You can also use the words ‘can I see the bite please’ and then the judge will do the cueing for you I find the cue plus the presentation of a nice bit of a treat  (you gradually move to different varied reward schedules) does wonders for getting a dog over bad things. Once the dog knows the cue – then you move to a known ’stranger’ then onwards until the dog has totally forgotten the idiot who did this. Matches are good things to attend but remember the judges are practicing too. Also be aware in the breed ring some judges are *very* rough and its wise to know ahead of time which entries to skip – your handler may be able to help you with this information. Nancy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Got a problem here. My male peke was shown to his Canadian championship last > year. He was handled by a handler, but was trained by my husband and myself > for walking on lead, and stacking – plus the basic doggy good manners and > basic commands. We also got him used to being examined on a table and having > his bite examined by enlisting every friend and neighbour we could find so > that having this done by a complete stranger (ie the judge) would not be a > problem. Well, it paid off in spades and he had no troubles at all and loved > all the attention in the ring. Well, this all changed last weekend when I > took him to a fun match to get him in the ring again to start preparing for > a stateside trip to the shows next year. The person judging wrenched open > the dog’s mouth and handled his mouth so roughly that a tooth cut his lip. > Now, this took only seconds to happen before I removed the judge’s hands > from my dog – it took a good count of 10 not to remove the judge’s head from > his body! So what do you think the problem is now – well, surprise, > surprise, he’s now shy of anyone, including hubby and I, around his mouth. > The vet had a wicked time trying to assess the damage to his lip – this from > a dog who sat calmly during all his vet visits regardless of what was being > done. We have to keep his lip clean and put ointment on it and it’s not > going well at all – he’s shying away, getting really stressed and fighting > all the way. I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat it > and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again. Any tips, > ideas, thoughts? thanks …….Kathy J

Response:

> > Indeed. I’m glad you brought that up. As a matter of fact, a > veterinarian who specializes in SAR and hyperthermia spent a > while discussing that issue with me, and agrees that there is > no concern whatsoever. And no, I’m not going to tell you who it > is so you can harass him… > More lies jer.

Yep. There is only one vet that fits that description, John Anderson, and he would never say such a thing.  The opposite, in fact. Lynn K.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Indeed. I’m glad you brought that up. As a matter of fact, a > > veterinarian who specializes in SAR and hyperthermia spent a > > while discussing that issue with me, and agrees that there is > > no concern whatsoever. And no, I’m not going to tell you who it > > is so you can harass him… > More lies jer. > Yep. There is only one vet that fits that description, John Anderson, > and he would never say such a thing.  The opposite, in fact. > Lynn K.

Nope. You’re wrong again. You are a proven liar and dog abuser. Jerry. j;~}

Response:

Pssst! NOBODY BELIEVES YOU. EVERYONE KNOWS YOU ARE A LIAR, A BEGGAR,  and A MENTAL CASE. EVERYONE KNOWS YOU DEFEND HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN THEM. EVERYONE KNOW YOU DEFEND  DOG ABUSERS. Bye! Jerry. j;~}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > > > Did you forget to tell them they should pinch and twist the > > > ears to get the dog to open up??? > > Is that what you do to revive your dogs after running them > until their > > temperature reaches 106 degrees jer? > > What a hero you are! > > EdW > Hello ed, > Indeed. I’m glad you brought that up. As a matter of fact, a > veterinarian who specializes in SAR and hyperthermia spent a > while discussing that issue with me, and agrees that there is > no concern whatsoever. And no, I’m not going to tell you who it > is so you can harass him… > More lies jer. > YOU are the continual liar here. Want PROOF? > You are lying when you claim I defend abusing animals. > You are lying when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. > You are lying when you claim to have thousands of happy customers. > You CONSTANTLY LIE about your free WEDTM offer. > You offer a free training manual but the link you post sends them to the > sales pitch for your dubious $100 electronic training device. > It is the classic sleazy "Bait & Switch" scam. > (A purchaser of jerry’s $100 training device has posted a review at: > Buyer Beware! > You should try being honest jer. Stop using the bait & switch scam. > Being honest is a better way to live. You should try it. You would be a > much happier & better person. > EdW > http://Petloss.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Did you forget to tell them they should pinch and twist the > > ears to get the dog to open up??? > Is that what you do to revive your dogs after running them > until their > temperature reaches 106 degrees jer? > What a hero you are! > EdW > Hello ed, > Indeed. I’m glad you brought that up. As a matter of fact, a > veterinarian who specializes in SAR and hyperthermia spent a > while discussing that issue with me, and agrees that there is > no concern whatsoever. And no, I’m not going to tell you who it > is so you can harass him…

More lies jer. YOU are the continual liar here. Want PROOF? You are lying when you claim I defend abusing animals. You are lying when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. You are lying when you claim to have thousands of happy customers. You CONSTANTLY LIE about your free WEDTM offer. You offer a free training manual but the link you post sends them to the sales pitch for your dubious $100 electronic training device. It is the classic sleazy "Bait & Switch" scam. (A purchaser of jerry’s $100 training device has posted a review at: Buyer Beware! You should try being honest jer. Stop using the bait & switch scam. Being honest is a better way to live. You should try it. You would be a much happier & better person. EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

> Did you forget to tell them they should pinch and twist the > ears to get the dog to open up??? > Is that what you do to revive your dogs after running them until their > temperature reaches 106 degrees jer? > What a hero you are! > EdW

Hello ed, Indeed. I’m glad you brought that up. As a matter of fact, a veterinarian who specializes in SAR and hyperthermia spent a while discussing that issue with me, and agrees that there is no concern whatsoever. And no, I’m not going to tell you who it is so you can harass him… Your pals lyinglynn and freaky fraud die flank and switch dogs to make them aggressive. You defend that. They can’t believe that I turn out protection dogs WITHOUT EVER HURTING THEM… Here’s my Spike & Squirt method. You’ll see that I don’t do ANYTHING to the dog whatsoever. Dogs work better for handlers who DON’T LET THEM GET HURT. It pays off, because our dogs don’t let US get hurt. You and your pals are always putting a sick spin to it and trying to use it to defame me. IT CAN’T BE DONE. You are beating a dead horse, and making yourselves look like IDIOTS. Although I’m in Florida, the reference to temperature has nothing to do with hot, except that the dog’s temperature increases due to emotional stress. The commotion about spiking temps is the only thing my detractors can latch onto based on an out of context quote in a conversation with lyinglynn, who was defending FLANKING dogs to turn them on and PROOF them. It’s a dishonest attempt at character assassination. I can hardly blame them, they’re fighting to defend WHAT’S LEFT of their miserable careers and lousy reputations… Here’s my ”Spike & Squirt" method in detail: Most of our vicious rpdb Gang Of Thugs members have taken an out of context quote from me regarding the temporary elevated temperatures and diarrhea my dogs get when going through protection training… they knew what I meant, because the discussion was about my objection to hitting the dogs as is done in schutzhund trials with a stick to "proof" them…, a practice I find abhorrent. Most protection trainers will hit the dog with a switch, flank them, i.e pulling the loose skin in front of the rear leg that attaches just behind the ribs, pulling their ears and tails, and hitting them in the face with their hand, usually while muzzled. I do NOT use or approve of any of those ”methods. I don’t use any physical ‘’stimulation” when I protection train a dog, except for letting them get a bite once in a while on the sleeve. I don’t use any force, fear, or confrontation in any of my work, except on the news group with our Gang Of Thugs… who’ve earned that title because of the vicious practices they use and defend… while they try to convince you that I abuse dogs and that my methods do not work… and that HURTING YOUR DOG is necessary, and that choke and pronged and shock collars DO NOT HURT… read the posts, folks… somebody’s TRYING to make a fool of somebody… That’s why they’re FREAKING OUT, because I’m EXPOSING them. What makes my student’s temp go up and causes diarrhea within a couple minutes of beginning protection training? The dog has spent weeks, maybe months, learning only to be gentle, polite, and loving… When I’ve trained dogs to be peaceable and respectful by gentle handling and demonstrating those qualities, the dogs are aghast when suddenly our quiet world is disturbed by a suspicious character, my agitator, attempting to hurt his owner… What do you think would happen to an untrained (protection) dog or man, if some cretin tried to hurt his people? When his handler is unexpectedly provoked and intimidated, the dog is torn between doing what the rules always have been, and what the situation now requires… This stresses the dog, just as we’d be stressed were we to find some molester bothering our family… In just a couple of minutes, the dog has to make a decision to violate everything he’s been taught, in order to protect his handler…  The fight or flight response kicks in, and survival instinct ups the ante… The dog vacillates between fear and aggression, as does the handler, according to my instructions. The dog begins to growl, the agitator runs off, the handler thanks the dog profusely, and the dog has a temporary elevated temperature and loose bowel movement, just as anyone might, had they just sent off a bunch of hooligans… The reaction is temporary, the dog learns that there is nothing to fear, and the next time the dog hears ”watch him,” he’s like a hornets nest looking everywhere for danger…  The temp shoots up quickly and goes down quickly, the dog shows no signs of distress, they feel good actually, cocky is the best way I could describe it. Pleased and confident, but reserved, not overly excited, sober might best describe their attitude. They mature, just like a child who learns martial arts might be expected to become, as a result of learning self control and discipline through the training. That is nothing like the happy excited look that all the Thugs are describing when their dogs see the pronged collar coming… that excited attitude is stress because of the association of corrections and from constant triggering of the opposition reflex as the dog is being forced to work. I then go on to do a makeup exercise after the five minute session, to insure that the dog is not harboring any stress or hostility towards the agitator. That’s as violent as my protection training gets. We do "’spar with them, but not with contact, only the moves to show the dog where a kick or strike might come from… and to teach the dog to bite the most vulnerable parts of their opponent. Most of the agitators I use are martial arts students. They get to practice their speed teaching the dog to work much like we would train in the ring… but without contact… I don’t mind contact when I spar, but I’m prepared to bust something now and again… My dog’s aren’t, and I won’t risk having an accident that will diminish my dog’s desire to work. Our Gang Of Thugs has had a field day trying to say that my methods are abusive BEFORE I’ve even discussed them… In fact, when I finally did explain, NOBODY cared to notice, they only continued to talk about "my abusive methods of spike and squirt"… NONE of the ”experts” here with experience in protection training can believe that my methods obtain such a visceral reaction from the dog, they’ve never seen any such thing themselves. WHY? Why do my dogs get such a response to agitation, and theirs don’t??? Simple. THEIR dogs are either playing or defending themselves from being attacked… MY dogs become aggressive NOT because they are defending themselves, but because they see their kind and gentle handler being threatened, and THAT drives dogs WILD… Jerry.

Response:

Did you forget to tell them they should pinch and twist the ears to get the dog to open up???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat it > and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again. > Kathy, did you ever teach him "Open"?  If not, you probably need to > now.  Use your yummiest treats, and only give them when he opens up > wide.  Start without touching his muzzle at all – holding the treat > a little above his nose and dropping it in when he opens his mouth, > and marking that action with the command word.  I use "Jaws", but > "Open" is certainly more traditional > Only when he gets the idea should you move to touching him. Start > by cupping your hand under his chin, with no pressure or fingers > gripping the sides of his mouth.  He should be willing to open his > mouth from that position.  Don’t move to any hand on the top or > pushing up his flews until he’s really comfortable. Actually, having > him open that mouth up wide when your cradling his chin will go a > long way to preventing a reoccurrence.  Even the most hamfisted judge > sees no need to manhandle a dog who is voluntarily presenting a > wide open view of all teeth. > Lynn K.

Response:

> Did you forget to tell them they should pinch and twist the > ears to get the dog to open up???

Is that what you do to revive your dogs after running them until their temperature reaches 106 degrees jer? What a hero you are! EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

Yeah. Except that judges want to see the teeth closed…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat it > and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again. > Kathy, did you ever teach him "Open"?  If not, you probably need to > now.  Use your yummiest treats, and only give them when he opens up > wide.  Start without touching his muzzle at all – holding the treat > a little above his nose and dropping it in when he opens his mouth, > and marking that action with the command word.  I use "Jaws", but > "Open" is certainly more traditional > Only when he gets the idea should you move to touching him. Start > by cupping your hand under his chin, with no pressure or fingers > gripping the sides of his mouth.  He should be willing to open his > mouth from that position.  Don’t move to any hand on the top or > pushing up his flews until he’s really comfortable. Actually, having > him open that mouth up wide when your cradling his chin will go a > long way to preventing a reoccurrence.  Even the most hamfisted judge > sees no need to manhandle a dog who is voluntarily presenting a > wide open view of all teeth. > Lynn K.

Response:

> I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat it > and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again.

Kathy, did you ever teach him "Open"?  If not, you probably need to now.  Use your yummiest treats, and only give them when he opens up wide.  Start without touching his muzzle at all – holding the treat a little above his nose and dropping it in when he opens his mouth, and marking that action with the command word.  I use "Jaws", but "Open" is certainly more traditional Only when he gets the idea should you move to touching him.  Start by cupping your hand under his chin, with no pressure or fingers gripping the sides of his mouth.  He should be willing to open his mouth from that position.  Don’t move to any hand on the top or pushing up his flews until he’s really comfortable.  Actually, having him open that mouth up wide when your cradling his chin will go a long way to preventing a reoccurrence.  Even the most hamfisted judge sees no need to manhandle a dog who is voluntarily presenting a wide open view of all teeth. Lynn K.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Got a problem here. My male peke was shown to his Canadian championship last > year. He was handled by a handler, but was trained by my husband and myself > for walking on lead, and stacking – plus the basic doggy good manners and > basic commands. We also got him used to being examined on a table and having > his bite examined by enlisting every friend and neighbour we could find so > that having this done by a complete stranger (ie the judge) would not be a > problem. Well, it paid off in spades and he had no troubles at all and loved > all the attention in the ring. Well, this all changed last weekend when I > took him to a fun match to get him in the ring again to start preparing for > a stateside trip to the shows next year. The person judging wrenched open > the dog’s mouth and handled his mouth so roughly that a tooth cut his lip. > Now, this took only seconds to happen before I removed the judge’s hands > from my dog – it took a good count of 10 not to remove the judge’s head from > his body! So what do you think the problem is now – well, surprise, > surprise, he’s now shy of anyone, including hubby and I, around his mouth. > The vet had a wicked time trying to assess the damage to his lip – this from > a dog who sat calmly during all his vet visits regardless of what was being > done. We have to keep his lip clean and put ointment on it and it’s not > going well at all – he’s shying away, getting really stressed and fighting > all the way. I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat it > and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again. Any tips, > ideas, thoughts? thanks …….Kathy J

Hello David, Try using sound distraction and praise to distract him every time he thinks about shying. You can clap your hands or snap your fingers or use ANY brief, non physical distraction, f ollowed immediately by exuberant, prolonged, non physical, praise. Using this technique is the easiest and fastest way to break any behavior. There are a number of things that have to be considered when beginning this approach. A few preliminary exercises in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available at: http://www.doggydoright.com will explain the basic handling techniques you should learn. Using them will insure that the method will work to a high degree of proficiency. The problem is that not many people understand how to use the sound distraction and praise techniques correctly, and do not know HOWE to use the come command as a default, if the sound does not work on occasion. When you are told these methods have been tried and didn’t work, rest assured that whomever "tried" it and for whom it did not work, did not "try" doing it correctly. If the technique does not work, the come command is to be used as a default, and a new attempt at addressing the problem can begin. I’ve heard a couple of the "experts" here saying they’ve tried it, and it didn’t work for them, or it made their dog nervous. Those are usually the experts that choke and shock dogs, and are trying to FORCE the dog using sound instead of choking or shocking…Many of them have never read the techniques presented here, and are using inappropriate or incorrect methods. There are some people that do not follow directions and get lousy results, and there are people that do not allow the technique adequate repetition to be successful. Those problems may occur if the technique is not done precisely. There is no excuse that these techniques will not work if done correctly, t they are a scientific fact. Any sound will suffice. Ideally, the sound would be the same each time, but that is not always possible. A single clap of the hands or snap of the fingers would do, if it were followed by praise, and as long as it does not happen twice in succession from the same point of origin. That’s why several penny cans are required. You cannot use the same can for more than two occasions in succession. The sound must always be accompanied with praise. The sound must never occur from the same point of origin twice in succession. The sound must be brief. Any UNINTENTIONAL sounding should be avoided and PRAISED if it occurs. That will let the dog know it was not intended for them. When more than one dog is present when using sound distractions and praise techniques, all dogs p resent must receive praise with direct eye contact so they will UNDERSTAND they were not being addressed. The praise must continue constantly for several seconds following any sound cue to allow the thought process to be completed. The behavior must be allowed or made to be repeated and interrupted using sound and praise until the behavior is broken. And most importantly, the moment the dog thinks of resuming the behavior, you must praise him. That’s right. When the dog thinks about resuming the behavior, if you praise him at that exact moment, the previous corrections will be restimulated in the dogs mind, and the behavior will be extinguished. That seems to be the real hard part for the trainers here to understand. They want to make it happen, and they interfere with the dog’s thought process. The dog will learn through the process of elimination of alternative actions or behaviors. It takes a few minutes, and the behavior is eliminated, rather than repressed and seething to resume, as is the case with physical or verbal corrections, confrontation, or punishment "techn iques." The trainer will confound his efforts when they insist on telling the dog "NO!," instead of relying on the conditioning that has been established. Shouting at the dog will often trigger the opposite of the desired effect. What further complicates the process for the trainer, is that they break the conditioning when they respond with a different corrective technique out of a reflexive reaction of their own, such as screaming "No!," or reaching out to grab the dog and physically correcting the dog for a further instance of malbehavior, rather than taking the moment to think about the best way to address the problem, and if necessary search for a can and follow through with the appropriate sound and praise. The process must be carried out using an alternate source of sound for the next interruption. An associate could be enlisted and instructed to clap their hands on signal to accomplish the desired sound interruption. We want the dog to exhaust all of the alternative malbehaviors he can pull out of his bag of tricks, in order for us to extinguish them EACH in turn. Any time we interact in a behavior by telling the dog no, or physically restrain or correct him, we are becoming part of the behavior, either as a player or competitor in the dogs mis chief. Using sound as a distraction must always be followed by immediate, prolonged, non physical praise. Interrupting a behavior with sound should never be associated with us, as in voicing no, or telling the dog to stop it. The behavior should NOT be distracted with any PHYSICAL INTERVENTION. We want the behavior to begin again, so that we may have another opportunity to properly address the behavior with another sound and praise. That way, we can completely end a problem while the dog is THINKING about it, and we are prepared to address the issue before it becomes out of control. The sound must never occur twice in a row from the same direction. In other words, if you snapped your fingers in front of the dog to stop him from chewing on your shoelace, you’d praise him for five to fifteen seconds immediately upon snapping your fingers. The behavior will hopefully resume, and the next attempt at chewing the shoelace, the sound of the snap of your fingers must come from behind the dog, or even from a friend assisting from across the room, from a soda can with a few pennies in it, or any source of sound (except our voice!), followed by prolonged non physical praise, until the dog is no longer thinking about the behavior or resumes it. The third interruption of the behavior usually gets the message across, and the dog will think about the behavior for just a moment before engaging in it once again for the fourth and last time… That split second thinking about engaging in the b ehavior requires praise. Do not react to it with a challenge of sh outing no, or physically removing the temptation. That moment of thinking about resuming the behavior and the praise it earns him, will validate the prior interruptions of that behavior.The dog then needs to test it out, to be sure that the same behavior will be dealt with in exactly the same manner. They will usually make a fourth attempt at the behavior, and if you follow through appropriately, he will learn not to do that behavior anymore. But only on the one shoelace! He must take that behavior to other instances to fully cease the desire for the behavior. The behavior will not be completely broken until he has taken the process of elimination to the second, third, and fourth opportunity to explore that behavior. And, even at that, you may need to repeat the process in four completely different places. That means that the worst behavior may need up to sixty-four properly timed interruptions and praise. Usually it happens much quicker than that. Breaking a behavior in this manner reduces stress, takes us out of the position of negative enforcer or competitor or playmate, and allows the dog to extinguish a behavior because he simply doesn’t get any satisfaction from it. The other secret is giving the dog a payoff for every time they look at you. Each time you notice eye contact from your dog, you must praise him verbally, to keep him always thinking of you and to prevent his idle mind from doing the devils work. You can get all the information you need to properly handle and train your dog using non force, non confrontational, scientific and psychological behavior modification and conditioning techn … read more »

Response:

Got a problem here. My male peke was shown to his Canadian championship last year. He was handled by a handler, but was trained by my husband and myself for walking on lead, and stacking – plus the basic doggy good manners and basic commands. We also got him used to being examined on a table and having his bite examined by enlisting every friend and neighbour we could find so that having this done by a complete stranger (ie the judge) would not be a problem. Well, it paid off in spades and he had no troubles at all and loved all the attention in the ring. Well, this all changed last weekend when I took him to a fun match to get him in the ring again to start preparing for a stateside trip to the shows next year. The person judging wrenched open the dog’s mouth and handled his mouth so roughly that a tooth cut his lip. Now, this took only seconds to happen before I removed the judge’s hands from my dog – it took a good count of 10 not to remove the judge’s head from his body! So what do you think the problem is now – well, surprise, surprise, he’s now shy of anyone, including hubby and I, around his mouth. The vet had a wicked time trying to assess the damage to his lip – this from a dog who sat calmly during all his vet visits regardless of what was being done. We have to keep his lip clean and put ointment on it and it’s not going well at all – he’s shying away, getting really stressed and fighting all the way. I know his mouth is sore right now, but we do have to treat it and we also want to get him accepting a mouth examination again. Any tips, ideas, thoughts? thanks …….Kathy J

Response: