Exercise R Us

Question:

>Corn starch is said to be a reasonable substitute for >maltodextrin. Fructose is preferentially used to replenish liver >glucose.  One formula recommended by some sports physiologists is 10 >percent glucose for quick energy, 5 to 10% fructose for the liver, >and the rest complex carbohydrates like maltodextrin.  

Complex carbohydrates like maltodextrin raise blood sugar levels AS FAST OR FASTER than pure glucose. To slow this down you must add fiber, fat, or protein to the energy source. >But I can never carry enough powders and gels for really long rides. >I like to empty a 16 ounce can of coke into a large water bottle, and >top it off with 12 ounces of water, and ride a few miles with the >nipple open to reduce the carbonization without making the bottle >explode.  Plus the extra caffeine is nice.

For longer races, I used to use "the bomb". It was LOADED with a double espresso, water, and enough sugar to supersaturate it. Going into the third hour of an MTB race it made you feel like superman. — Dave Blake

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> >nipple open to reduce the carbonization without making the bottle >explode.  Plus the extra caffeine is nice. > For longer races, I used to use "the bomb". It was LOADED with > a double espresso, water, and enough sugar to supersaturate it. > Going into the third hour of an MTB race it made you feel like > superman.

How did you get it down without barfing ? —

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> Fruit and a bagel would be just as good as any >fancy sport food.

Maybe nutritionally, but there’s a lot more to the story than just that.  One of the biggest advantages of well-designed sports nutrition is the packaging.  I sure wouldn’t want to rely on fruit in my back pockets during a hard, rainy bike race. JT Visit http://www.jt10000.com Cycling, Food and Stories

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>>Has anybody made useful gels or drink powders and can offer tips on >how to do so. Looking at the ingredients for powergel it doesn’t >look like it would be that hard to use some powdered maltodrextrin >disolved into some liquid sugar(in appropriate proportions based on >the packaging) >While I’ve been known to chomp on a Power Bar or Cliff Bar most of the >stuff I read says your better off eating fruit. Anyway you look at it >you pay a penalty for eating on the trail. It puts your stomach to >work digesting which needs blood circulation to do it’s work. That’s >less to use getting oxygen.

The problem with digesting significant amounts of food is a reduction in venous return pressure which, in turn, reduces cardiac output. Less cardiac output means less work.  Blood oxygenation in the lungs is simply scaled down with the cardiac output reduction. >A better system is to mix a sport drink 50/50 with water. This gives >you the sugars and things you need but in a way your stomach can >handle without sucking blood from other work. This should work for a >medium ride of under three or maybe four hours.

The most appropriate concentration of a drink will depend heavily on the temperature. On a hot day even Gatorade will provide adequate sugar, but on a cold day you’d be better off drinking gels. The ‘rule of thumb’, or at least a good starting point, is 40-50 grams of carbohydrates per hour in the form of glucose or glucose polymers like maltodextrin. Fructose is not as good. Powerbars are even worse since they intentionally increase GI blood flow by adding soluble fiber to their carbohydrates. Fig bars are even worse. You can actually bonk for about an hour after eating them. Water intake is a largely independent consideration depending on the temperature. If you are really good you should be able to figure out the right amount of maltodextrin to add to your drink depending on the temperature. I run a very dilute drinking solution and keep a very concentrated sugar source for energy, and take each as needed. — Dave Blake

Response:

>> >nipple open to reduce the carbonization without making the bottle > >explode.  Plus the extra caffeine is nice. > For longer races, I used to use "the bomb". It was LOADED with > a double espresso, water, and enough sugar to supersaturate it. > Going into the third hour of an MTB race it made you feel like > superman. >How did you get it down without barfing ?

Going into the third hour of an MTB race, anything that looks like energy will go down OK. It is a question of whether it will bloat you and slow you down or not. The sugar bomb works. — Dave Blake

Response:

>For drinks, you can get malto-dextrin at the stores selling supplies >for homebrewing beer. Malto-dextrin adds some complex carbs to those >simple-sugar laced energy drinks. Better for the long haul, but be >careful because it may be slower to digest.

Maltodextrin is not appreciably slower to digest than glucose. Most simple glucose polymers, like maltodextrin, are converted to simple sugars in the small intestine with incredible speed. The only things that slow this process are slower gastric emptying or slower absorption due to soluble fiber. Gastric emptying is slowed by soluble fiber, other mechanical properties of the food, fat, and protein. For mechanical properties, for example, the gsatric emptying rate is slower for pastas with longer strands compared to a pasta made of small noodles. The bottom line is – glucose polymers are glucose polymers and are all rapid energy sources. Fructose is different. It is absorbed more slowly, and for this reason it has been recommended by manyfor use in a sports drink. Unfortunately, there is a pretty low limit on what you can absorb before malabsorption sets in. For example, if you had an empty stomach and drank two soft drinks  - about 50 grams of fructose, you would test positive for malabsorption. Some people will test positive at lower amounts than that. The positive test indicates increased hydrogen gas in your exhaled breath – a sure sign that bacteria are breaking down sugars in your intestines – instead of you breaking them down in your muscles. I recommend only glucose/glucose polymers. If you want slow release for some reason – eat a powerbar. The powerbar in particular adds a little fiber to the bar to make it slow release. Most other energy bars do not do this. Fructose sources are to be avoided, or at least to be recognized as potential causes of bloated malabsorption. >As always, never try a modified beverage (or food, or bike part) >during a race. Mix up some stuff when practicing during the week to >get the ratio just right for your situation.

Agreed 100%. A proper energy drink will give you just enough energy. A slight bit more and you will feel too bloated to continue riding hard. — Dave Blake

Response:

For drinks, you can get malto-dextrin at the stores selling supplies for homebrewing beer. Malto-dextrin adds some complex carbs to those simple-sugar laced energy drinks. Better for the long haul, but be careful because it may be slower to digest. As always, never try a modified beverage (or food, or bike part) during a race. Mix up some stuff when practicing during the week to get the ratio just right for your situation. please remove the name of the RACE SERIES for e-mail replies

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In article > Has anybody made useful gels or drink powders and can offer tips on how to > do so. Looking at the ingredients for powergel it doesn’t look like it > would be that hard to use some powdered maltodrextrin disolved into some > liquid sugar(in appropriate proportions based on the packaging) > Any ideas? Anyone with a web site that has this info? >  Randy > Gray mountain biking guy.

Corn starch is said to be a reasonable substitute for maltodextrin. Fructose is preferentially used to replenish liver glucose.  One formula recommended by some sports physiologists is 10 percent glucose for quick energy, 5 to 10% fructose for the liver, and the rest complex carbohydrates like maltodextrin.  Sugar (sucrose) converts quickly into glucose and fructose, so theoretically a mix of 80% corn starch and 20% table sugar should work. The only problem is it tastes awful.  And buying something like Hydra Fuel in bulk isn’t that expensive. But I can never carry enough powders and gels for really long rides.  I like to empty a 16 ounce can of coke into a large water bottle, and top it off with 12 ounces of water, and ride a few miles with the nipple open to reduce the carbonization without making the bottle explode.  Plus the extra caffeine is nice. I can never carry enough powders or gel on a long ride

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Fruit and a bagel would be just as good as any >>fancy sport food. >Maybe nutritionally, but there’s a lot more to the story than just >that.  One of the biggest advantages of well-designed sports nutrition >is the packaging.  I sure wouldn’t want to rely on fruit in my back >pockets during a hard, rainy bike race. >Yeah, bug bagels aren’t hard  Oranges and Bananas aren’t really life- >threatening. Quaker granola bars are better tasting and much cheaper than >powerbars. >I never subscribed to it. I’m not putting down those who do, but to me food >is food. I’m not a superathlete where a fig newton is gonna hold me back, so >it doesn’t matter to me. >-j

Perhaps I’m not being clear, or perhaps you didn’t read what I said. I’m not talking about nutrition — I’m talking about bike racing.  And in bike racing your food has got to be packaged to survice bad weather and tight pockets, be bite-sized or otherwise easily swallowed.  In general the sports specific products are better at this.  If your granola bars come individually packaged  then they sound OK too (apart from the partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, which may or may not slow you down but may kill you — but that’s another story). JT Visit http://www.jt10000.com Cycling, Food and Stories – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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>> Fruit and a bagel would be just as good as any >fancy sport food. >Maybe nutritionally, but there’s a lot more to the story than just >that.  One of the biggest advantages of well-designed sports nutrition >is the packaging.  I sure wouldn’t want to rely on fruit in my back >pockets during a hard, rainy bike race.

Yeah, bug bagels aren’t hard  Oranges and Bananas aren’t really life- threatening. Quaker granola bars are better tasting and much cheaper than powerbars. I never subscribed to it. I’m not putting down those who do, but to me food is food. I’m not a superathlete where a fig newton is gonna hold me back, so it doesn’t matter to me. -j

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Has anybody made useful gels or drink powders and can offer tips on how to do so. Looking at the ingredients for powergel it doesn’t look like it would be that hard to use some powdered maltodrextrin disolved into some liquid sugar(in appropriate proportions based on the packaging) Any ideas? Anyone with a web site that has this info?  Randy Gray mountain biking guy. Local Nova Scotia mountain biking info is available at: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~at289/Profile.html

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: Has anybody made useful gels or drink powders and can offer tips on how to : do so. Looking at the ingredients for powergel it doesn’t look like it : would be that hard to use some powdered maltodrextrin disolved into some : liquid sugar(in appropriate proportions based on the packaging) : Any ideas? Anyone with a web site that has this info? There’s a recipe on the Endureplus website in the archives somewhere (www.endureplus.com). I posted it here a few weeks ago (try dejanews) – can’t quite remember the proportions offhand. I think it’s 20g powder (malto + glucose) + 7g filtered water + 1g pectin + some citric acid and salts. Jeff —   *  Dr. Jones                               *         __o        *   *                                          *      (Y)/ (Y)      *   *  "Ramjet, you always cease to amaze me"  *                    *

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>Has anybody made useful gels or drink powders and can offer tips on how to >do so. Looking at the ingredients for powergel it doesn’t look like it >would be that hard to use some powdered maltodrextrin disolved into some >liquid sugar(in appropriate proportions based on the packaging) >Any ideas? Anyone with a web site that has this info? > Randy >Gray mountain biking guy. >Local Nova Scotia mountain biking info is available at: >http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~at289/Profile.html

This is from a deja news search from the makers of Quic Disc (1) Maltodextrin DE10:  Corn Products Globe 1910 Maltodextrin         17 grams = 80 to 100 cal. (2) Filtered Water  7 grams (3) Dextrose 3 grams  = 12 cals (4) Flavor less than 1 grams (4) Salt 25 mg (5) Citric Acid to your liking (6) add 1 gram pectin to keep it fluid and so it does not harden.  You must keep it in a sealed container so that air does not get to it and harden it. You may need to use more pectin depending on when you intend to use it. This is about the proportions of ingredients in the old Gatorade Relode, not including the pectin. You can call Corn Products or a distributor of sugar to buy 50 pound bags of Maltodextrin or in beer Brewery shops.  If you go to brewery shops it will cost you 10 times more than if you buy one 50 pound bag from a sugar distributor.  Dextrose can also be gotten at your local sugar distributor. They are probably in your yellow pages.  You can use any flavor like Koolade to your liking. Good luck, we know it works because we were planning to produce a Gel a number of years ago, before the market got too crowded. Fred www.quicdisc.com Mark Linenberg                                        o                       __o            </_                       <           __/    /o_           (()) (())           /

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#Has anybody made useful gels or drink powders and can offer tips on how to #do so. Looking at the ingredients for powergel it doesn’t look like it #would be that hard to use some powdered maltodrextrin disolved into some #liquid sugar(in appropriate proportions based on the packaging) # #Any ideas? Anyone with a web site that has this info? While I’ve been known to chomp on a Power Bar or Cliff Bar most of the stuff I read says your better off eating fruit. Anyway you look at it you pay a penalty for eating on the trail. It puts your stomach to work digesting which needs blood circulation to do it’s work. That’s less to use getting oxygen. A better system is to mix a sport drink 50/50 with water. This gives you the sugars and things you need but in a way your stomach can handle without sucking blood from other work. This should work for a medium ride of under three or maybe four hours. On a longer ride you will likely need food. Fruit and a bagel would be just as good as any fancy sport food. You could use dried fruit, but you’ll just drink more water, at least if your smart. Remember it takes 24 hours to recover from dehydration once you have gotten behind on your water intake.

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